# Silo 3: Culture, Bad Managers, and the 3 R's

- **Episode:** [05](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/05.md) (2022-07-25)
- **Type:** other
- **Tags:** culture, bad-managers, leadership
- **Time:** 30:04–39:57 (start 1804s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/05?t=1804](https://truthliesandwork.com/05?t=1804)

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[30:04] Al Elliott: Okay, so back in the '80s and '90s, the Tom Peters of the world were talking about this open-door management technique where anyone can walk in, etc., etc. There have been lots of different management fads since then. However, how, how do managers and leaders deal with this problem of not being able to see people, not being able to just look over and see if they're happy, see if they're engaged, see if, you know, that kind of thing. How do they cope with that?
[30:30] Leanne Elliott: Insights. And I think it's what you were talking about there is gaining physical insights. But even then, people aren't necessarily going to tell you everything that's on their mind. You might not be able to tell by looking at somebody that they're having a bad day or that they're stressed. It's all about insights. And this is where employee engagement and employee engagement surveys in particular are so important, even more so in organizations that work remotely or Or in a hybrid structure, but getting those honest feedback, providing a safe environment, anonymous, anonymous feedback. And a good engagement survey will ask about these things. It will ask about relationships between staff. It will ask about relationships between staff and their managers. It will ask questions about if there's any toxicity or any challenges or, you know, mismatched expectations. It's going to give you those insights. And the great thing about engagement is that unless there's a significant change in your business, it's a fairly stable phenomenon. So, doing an annual survey and a 6-month pulse check is enough, provided there isn't any significant change, for you to get a general gauge of how relationships are within the business. Beyond that, it comes back down to just being a good manager and having genuine empathy and interest in the people that you are responsible for. There used to be a big shift of, oh, we have monthly one-to-ones and huddles on a Monday, etc., etc. And there seems to be a bit of a shift in the literature, but certainly in terms of practice as well during the pandemic and as we're coming out of it, to more frequent informal catch-ups. So say, for example, you're working with— you have a member of staff and they're in a new role within the business and they have some areas for development. You've given them a project that's really going to stretch them and really push them to use all their skills. skills and develop their skills and, you know, really dig into their strengths. Saying to that person, right, we talked about the project, you know what you're doing, cool, great, yet see you in 4 weeks. Fuck. I feel panicked for them. Whereas if you say to that member of staff, look, right, why don't we just put in a meeting every week, half an hour on a Wednesday afternoon? If we need it, we'll use it. If we don't and you're fine, that's great. That's just— we have something in the diary. But of course, you need anything, you give me a call, you give me a Zoom chat, whatever else. I'm here to support you. And then balance that as well with an impromptu call to a member of— a member of staff on a Monday morning. How you doing? How's your weekend? How you getting on that project? Any worries? Anything I can help you with? How you feeling about it? It's just opening up these communication channels. It's making sure you're approachable, you're being authentic in your interest and your support of that member of staff, it builds trust. So that means that if that member of staff starts to experience some difficulty, but you're not in the office to see them kind of pulling their hair out, then you've already got these kind of checkpoints in place where you should be able to gauge if something is going off
[33:36] Al Elliott: So it sounds like it's going to shake out a lot of the people who aren't good managers who've just been promoted because There's nowhere else for them to go
[33:43] Leanne Elliott: Absolutely. I think that's the thing, isn't it, that traditionally people have been promoted into management roles because they're good at their job. Therefore, they're promoted to manage other people that do the job that they're good at. And the reality is great management takes a completely different skill set. It's not a technical role in terms of necessarily having a, you know, a very specific profession and you're technically capable at that. Some of the best people leaders I've worked with have have managed very technical teams, whether it be in finance or technology, and don't have a finance or technology background because they don't need that. Their job is not to have the expertise. The expertise is in their team. Their job is to coordinate, to make sure people have got the right resources, the right support, they've got clear objectives, clear goals, and giving people the recognition that's going to make them feel motivated and engaged. leadership is a fundamental skill in itself. It doesn't rely necessarily on a technical capability within a profession
[34:42] Al Elliott: I love that. I love that. So, are there any kind of closing thoughts on this? I know you've been doing, developing some content with an insurance company around this, um, with remote work. Um, any other thoughts? Anything that people can sort of like hang their, hang these ideas on?
[34:57] Leanne Elliott: Yeah. And I think when you, you know, if you, if you try and Google what it takes to be a good manager, then good luck trying to find some kind of consensus on that, um, because there's different, different schools of thought, there's different types of management, different types of leaders. But when you kind of boil it all down to just what the main fundamental points of great management are, there's 3. One, give your people the reason. Does everyone know exactly why they're doing their job, how their job is in line with the broader goals and objectives of the organisation? Do they feel a value in what they do in contributing to something bigger? And that can be the smallest or the most mundane of tasks. We've talked again and again about the janitor in NASA. Same thing. Give your people a reason. Secondly, give them the resources, and not just the, you know, the workplace materials that they need, although that is a really important consideration with remote teams. You know, it's important to consider what the work environment for that member of staff that's working remotely looks like. Do they have space within their home to have this set up? Do they have the right technology available to them? It's almost like taking it back to, you know, used to like the health and safety risk assessments type things where people are returning to work or reasonable adjustments. It's a similar concept. It's making sure people have got the right environment. So, that is important. But in terms of resources as well, it's the role clarity. Do people know what's expected of them? Do they know what they have to do in a day and what their role is? And also, utilisation. Are employees given the opportunity to use their strengths and abilities? And that could even be in terms of their day job, in terms of stretch projects that's helping with their development, or just making sure that you understand as a manager, as a leader, The other strengths and skills that your people have. For example, you might have Johnny who has a podcast on the weekends, who actually knows quite a lot about mic equipment should you have a media project to do. People have all sorts of skills that can be used and utilized, so it's understanding your staff. And third, recognition. And it's not about what a great day, what a good job, well done. The problem with empty recognition is that you're just thanking somebody for doing their job, so it doesn't really mean a lot. It's like, well, yeah, I did my job, thanks, cheers. Recognition is more about kind of saying, John, what you did with that— I saw that email you sent to that client, you copied me into it, thanks for that. That phrase that you used in the end, that closing, that call to action was shit hot. That was incredible. I love that. Where did you get that idea from? Engage in the feedback, in the recognition. And similarly, even if the work isn't quite as expected, recognise the effort that was put into that. Few people go into work every day with the intention of doing a bad job. They might be disengaged and they might have kind of lost the, the kind of the passion that they once had, perhaps, but people don't typically go into work to do a bad day's work. So, recognise the effort, try and understand why that effort didn't land Because that's as frustrating for the person as it is for you as a leader. And then help steer your employee back on course. And again, this is where those more regular catch-ups can be a really valuable way to do this
[38:15] Al Elliott: This is brilliant. So, reason, resources, and recognition. I think that's a, that's a really good framework for any manager. So, where can people go to learn a little bit more about this?
[38:26] Leanne Elliott: Yeah, there are a few resources I can recommend. One, by us, the Oblong HQ website. If you head over to our blog, you'll find a number of articles on management, remote work, leadership. There's a couple in particular that are relevant, so we'll link those in the show notes. For people who are HR practitioners, people and culture practitioners, or business leaders who just really want to get more into kind of the science and data behind management, there is a book called It's the Manager by Jim Clifton and Jim Harter from Gallup, which I recommend hugely. It's based on 80 years of data gathering from Gallup. It is the bible of everything management, and it's not a dry, heavy chapter-by-chapter book. It's split into really short, like 500-word chapters, with just some really key theory points and practical points as well in terms of being a great manager. Then finally, we run workshops for people who are adjusting to remote work or managing remote teams, people who are new to management roles. And so if you want to jump onto one of those, just get in touch, podcast@oblonghq.com
[39:35] Al Elliott: Perfect. Right, we'll leave it there then. So let's see you next time where we've got a potential secret guest, which if we can get them organised for next time, then we'll get them on. Otherwise, we will be talking about the number one reason why your business isn't scaling. And by the way, it isn't clients or cash. So let's Look forward to that one
[39:57] Leanne Elliott: Bye
[39:57] Al Elliott: Bye