# Why coaching isn't softer than managing

- **Episode:** [113](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/113.md) (2024-07-09)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** coaching, management, leadership
- **Time:** 35:11–40:24 (start 2111s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/113?t=2111](https://truthliesandwork.com/113?t=2111)

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[35:11] Alexis Zahner: A leader is often a great coach, and a great coach I think what people mistake is coaching being softer than management, and it's not the case. The difference is with a coach, with any good coach— and again, I've grown up playing football, so I can take direction— but I also have worked with people that rather than micromanage me or give me direction in a certain way, they'll simply support me to come to the answer that it is we need as a group. So it's not about not being explicit. It's not about not having expectations of a team. It's not about not having targets as an organization, but it's about how we go about getting there. And it's a behavioral shift from the people leading those who are expected to drive these outcomes. So rather than, you know, we can have like the team's goal for this quarter is X amount of whatever it may be. That's fine. There are certain processes in place in an organization that we each have to follow to get our day job done from day to day, but it's about understanding what each individual then needs to support them to get there. So I think it's just counterproductive as a leader or as a manager, whatever you want to call yourself, as the boss, to not understand how to empower your team to achieve the objectives you're setting them. So whether you want to call it a manager, whether whether you want to call it a coach or a leader, it's just about understanding what behaviors are required from you to get the most out of people to achieve the objectives that you need them to achieve. It's not about being fluffy. It's not about being mediocre. It's about radical candor, empowerment, and getting the most out of people by equipping them with what they need to do their best work. And there are times where explicit instruction is a kindness to our team. If we're in a short deadline and we need something to happen quickly, it is more unkind to create a lack of surety or a lack of clarity for our team. So sometimes there is time to say, hey guys, this is where we're at. This is what we need done. This is how we're going to move forward with this for the time being. It's not about it all being wishy-washy and everyone having their opinion on every single thing. That's not what it's about. It's about knowing when is the right time and place to employ the right sort of behavior to get what we need from folks. My coach's job is to observe me and witness where I'm struggling and then help me to understand where I'm going wrong. And that's why I said there are times where being explicit is a kindness. Because as a football player, I played center midfield, so if there's a certain player who for whatever reason is getting past me every single time, and as a player I cannot seem to work out what is going on, I want my coach observing me and saying, hey, this is what's happening. If you do this, the outcome will be different. So it's about being observational. It's about giving people, again, the support they need to succeed. So whether that's in a football setting, which is, hey Alexis, if you play to your left wing versus your right wing, it's going to change the game in this way. That's information that I can't see. It's perspective I can't gain from that macro level being in the mix. Likewise, as a leader, if you're observing your team in an intelligent way, you're looking at the interactions of the team, you're looking at how each one of those individual players is interacting together, and you're able to say, oh, I think this is where it's breaking down a little bit. I think this is why we aren't meeting this target, or I think this is why this is occurring in this way. And you're able to say, hey guys, I think this is what I'm observing. This is how I think we can go about rectifying it. Then you're giving that team data to do something about it, but you're doing so from a place of not blaming or shaming them, from a place of radical candor and saying, this is how we can be better. So again, it all comes down to the delivery and the way we go about it as well. When we feel like we're cared for and when we feel like people have our best intentions at heart— my football coach could have said anything to me and I knew she loved me, so I'd take it on board and be like, you know what?
[39:16] Al Elliott: Yeah
[39:16] Alexis Zahner: She knows what's best. She's watching me. She wants us to win this game as badly as I do. I'm 100% on board to do what she tells me to do. So yeah, I think that's a great way of putting it. Her name was Sue. Shout out to Sue. She's actually ex-UK military as well. So she came from a really, really hard setting, very used to instructions. And it translated so perfectly into football because she was so passionate and so loving of us girls, but also just had She was just so candid, but in such a kind and firm way that I personally responded really well to it. And she was probably one of the best coaches I've ever had. Not to say we didn't butt heads. There is also conflict that happens. But when you have that level of respect and when you know someone cares about you, you can move through those things in a lot easier way
[40:01] Al Elliott: No conversation about leadership is complete without talking about generational differences. I had a sense that Alexis Alexis would have an interesting take on the idea that millennial leaders are different to other generations. And of course, I wasn't wrong. So you talked about millennial leaders. I sense, because I'm Gen X, I sense that there's going to be a difference between a Gen X leader, a boomer leader, and a millennial leader. Are you seeing differences?