# Men promoted on potential, women on performance

- **Episode:** [114](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/114.md) (2024-07-10)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** gender-bias, promotion, performance-vs-potential
- **Time:** 27:45–27:56 (start 1665s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/114?t=1665](https://truthliesandwork.com/114?t=1665)

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[27:45] Al Elliott: Just so I understand, are you saying that performance versus potential, are you saying that one of them is predominantly What men are promoted on and one from the women?
[27:54] Cate Luzio: Oh, absolutely
[27:56] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[27:56] Cate Luzio: And this is— I mean, this isn't something new. Men are often promoted on potential, right? I think you'll be great for this job. We're going to put you in this role and invest in you, and you're going to perform. Women, it's often, well, we don't want to take a risk on her yet because we haven't seen her perform in this kind of role. So we're going to put her in there. And then till she performs, then we're going to promote her, then we're going to give her more, more responsibility, then we're going to give her more money. This is a common thing that's happened in the more traditional workforce. Part of that is there's still mostly men in leadership positions, at least at the senior level. And so I think until that change. I'm not saying that people should be promoted without merit, but there are oftentimes, and I've written about this, when you're in a sort of a group, let's call it a committee, and I was in this a lot when I was in finance, a woman would come up for, oh, could she be in this role? Well, she's just not ready yet. And not very frequently ever heard that about a guy. It was, well, let's put him in that role and we're going to give him the resources and the tools to support him and he'll perform. It's also why, and I think you probably know this, the statistic is still out there, which drives me crazy, that when there is a role, women will apply for it if they have 90 to 100% of the skills that are required and men do it at You know, 30 to 40%. That's also part of this performance and potential. We've been told over and over, until you perform, you're not getting in that role. So potential, that's such a huge opportunity, but we have to take risks on people. And throughout my career, I was fortunate where I had, for the most part, really good managers that saw my potential and wanted to put me in those roles. And were going to give me the guidance and the support and the mentorship if I was stumbling to help me become better in that role. I think we often think of this again as very black and white. Well, if they don't have the skills, they can't do it. I'm so thankful in my career that for most of the roles that I took outside of, I think, my last job, I never had all of the skills that would have been on that resume or that job description. I was tapped to say, hey, Kate, we think you can do this. You should consider it. Why me? By the final time before I left my last job, I said, why me? And that convinced me why I should work for you in that job versus why me? Why should it be me? When I got my first really, I mean, I think instrumental role in finance. I was at Bank of America and I was being asked to do a job. I really was like, I don't know any of this stuff. And they said, we are going to give you the support technically to help build those skills. We're also going to give you a buddy. And at the time, he was a managing director, very senior in the organization. Fernando, if you're listening. And they said, Any question that you have, he's going to be sort of like your guide here. Ask him the questions, the acronyms you don't know, things like, again, organizationally. That was one of the best things that that manager, that leader, his name is Richie Prager, he's amazing, ever did. Because he saw potential in me. He also knew he couldn't just put me in this role without any support. And that was a great way for me to not only learn from this other seasoned professional, Really also helped for me develop a new mentoring relationship. And I was very— I felt very invested in, and I built up a lot of loyalty for me because I could go to those people. I was in a role for a reason. It also helped me kind of puff up my chest a little bit, right? That confidence was boosted because of that belief in my potential. But it wasn't without merit and it wasn't without a thought process around how do we make sure she's successful, not just send her out and, oh well, let's hope for the best. And this is where I think there needs to be a lot more training for managers. Richie happened to be one of the most senior leaders at the time at Bank of America. He had a very long career. He ended up having a much longer career, then went to BlackRock. But, and he's still a mentor of mine. Anytime I got into a new role, And I was building it, I had a new team, or someone new came onto my team, I would say, all right, here are the 5 people that you need to go meet, and I will help you set up those meetings. One-on-one shadowing, great opportunity. One, you get to learn, you get exposure, you get visibility. Two, you are also by osmosis learning. Setting those one-on-ones are so easy, right? You reach out to other leaders in your sort of sphere of influence, other peers, and say, hey, listen, I got this new person on my team. I'd love for you to spend 15 minutes with them. Whatever you can make because I know we're all very busy. That's a vote of confidence right there about that person. Those 30, 60, 90-day plans is a great way for that person to go back to the manager and say, this is great. The 5 things that I wanted to do in the first 30 days, I've done. Now I'm on to my 60-90. That also instills in them this planning and preparation. They begin to do it on their own. And I will tell you, they will then do it for people that eventually work for them. So you, you start this great cycle of sort of investing in talent and Opens the door of communication and dialogue, transparency around what you're great at, what you're not great at, where you think you need more support and help. And I think that asking for help and support is a sign of strength versus weakness. If you had asked me that in my early part of my career, I would have said it's definitely a weakness. But over time, as I built my career, I realized We all have to ask for help. Nobody's doing any of this alone, whether you're working for a big bank or you're an entrepreneur. You don't do it alone. You need people around you, your boss, your peers, stakeholders, mentors, sponsors. It's a, it's a whole network working for you as you progress, grow, build, navigate your career