# Rethinking total compensation and ambition

- **Episode:** [114](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/114.md) (2024-07-10)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** compensation, ambition, career-strategy
- **Time:** 11:41–16:48 (start 701s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/114?t=701](https://truthliesandwork.com/114?t=701)

---

[11:41] Leanne Elliott: I think what's interesting about Cate is that she's helping women and basically anyone to embrace the idea that you don't need to fight your way to the top to have a great job or a great career. I'm pretty sure almost every network out there that's like Luminary markets themselves as doing the exact opposite. They help people rise to the highest ranks possible
[12:02] Al Elliott: Exactly. It's kind of refreshing, but we, we, I suppose we're sort of programmed at an early age to strive to be promoted as often as possible. But Cate's kind of doing the opposite. She's saying it's okay to not want that top job. What I couldn't quite get my head around is this. If you don't want the top spot, then does that mean you're not ambitious? Obviously, Cate is perfectly positioned to talk about this. So I asked her to explain what I'd get instead if I didn't ruthlessly pursue promotions. What is it that I could get staying in the middle that doesn't include promotion?
[12:35] Cate Luzio: Think about just straight up your compensation. And I use the word again, like I mentioned earlier, total compensation. What does it include, right? When you peel back the onion and you think about it as an employee wherever you work, is that just straight-up salary every 2 weeks? Is that— does there a bonus? Is there an opportunity for a bonus? Does that include your building? If personal time off and vacation is important to you, did you start with something and you build to that? Like, Are you getting more time off every year that you're still there, right? Rewarding loyalty too within the company. Is there flexibility? I don't want to work in the office every single day. Maybe I work from the office 3 days a week. Maybe I want to be completely remote. Is that a bargaining chip? Is that leverage for you in thinking about, again, total compensation? So, I think we've learned again that compensation is just about the dollars. I think the pandemic really showed a really big light on what else is important to you. What are your priorities? Maybe it is that I want to get home every day to, you know, welcome my kids off the bus. Doesn't mean I'm not going to go back to work and get back on the computer, but that's something that is important to me. Can I do that? Not every company is going to allow that, right? That's where you have to have this conversation. With your manager. And I think part of being rewarded, kind of looking at compensation. When I ask this question to any sort of company that we're working with, I say, how good is your relationship with your direct manager? Oftentimes there's lots of, oh, I have great— okay, how often do you talk to your manager outside of giving sort of a progress report of what you're working on or you're asking for help on a challenge? Very few people have open dialogue around their personal lives, around what's important to them, around how their priorities may have changed over time. Again, depending on where you are in your life cycle of your life. So much of this starts with communication and dialogue, right? I think when the pandemic hit, everybody was in the same boat. We were all on some type of virtual environment. We had a window into the lives of the people that we worked with, that worked for us, and that we were Now it's sort of back to pre-pandemic, if you will. And so why have we forgotten about that? And so if you are thinking about your priorities and compensation and being rewarded, maybe you have that string to pull. Like, I don't want to be a manager, or maybe I do one day, but right now I'm actually good. I've got a lot going on, but I'd love some additional flexibility in my role. I would love to to be a project lead on something specific versus I don't need to be a manager. You can still build your skills and build your responsibilities and expand your responsibilities even if you're not promoted for it. I often think women in particular are promoted on performance versus potential. I think that thing must change and managers need to be trained differently around thinking of their people about potential versus just performance. I think there's definitely a balance there that needs to happen. I was often promoted on potential because I had great sponsors, mentors, and really good dialogue and open communication with my managers around where I wanted my career to go, what did I need to do to continue to progress on the path. Many times, we're not having that conversation with our managers
[16:18] Al Elliott: Well, let's talk about perspective here for a second, because if you are senior leadership, then it's a good chance that you— and again, we're going to be really, really generalistic here, but you might be a Type A. Yes, a Type A. You want to climb the ladder, and you get to the top, and you've done it. Now you're looking back at what you called the messy middle, the power middle. As a senior leader, I'm thinking, Well, why do people not want to climb the ladder? That's all I wanted in life. So how are we going to reeducate senior leaders to see that climbing the ladder is not it all?