# When change isn't working — knowing when to stop

- **Episode:** [116](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/116.md) (2024-07-20)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** change-implementation, knowing-when-to-stop, project-management
- **Time:** 40:31–42:57 (start 2431s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/116?t=2431](https://truthliesandwork.com/116?t=2431)

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[40:31] Al Elliott: So, let's talk about getting halfway through implementing some change and thinking, this is not going well. What do we do?
[40:37] Hilary Scarlet: We do put pressure on leaders, ourselves, our politicians, not to make U-turns. We want people to carry on. But sometimes actually, it could be a useful thing to do. So I think weighing up the evidence about, have we actually gone down the wrong track here, is a really useful thing to do, to be able to do, but quite a brave thing to be able to do as well. Because I think we do put pressure on people to be consistent. You said that, you said we're going in that direction. So, I think it's quite a hard thing to do, to reverse that decision, but often can be a useful thing to do. And again, I think it's about bringing people in, engaging them, involving them, so they understand why, if decisions have been changed, why that decision has been made. I can remember one where actually, well, it's one that kind of started off wrong and then got better. Going back to my earlier point about leaders going into darkened rooms and coming up with a plan, but not really spending enough time on engaging other leaders, actually, in this particular case. And it went horribly off track because this change was announced and very quickly, quite a few of the leaders went, I'm not going to do it. And another one would go, no, I'm not going to do it. And the whole thing, you could just see it unraveling. But on that one, you know, it took time, but actually then they did spend much more time then with people helping them to understand why and what was going on. So that's one where I guess I kind of saw, yeah, things going, going wrong, but actually get— getting it back, back on track. I've certainly had that experience. I think most people do kind of carry on and try and make it, make it work, I guess, is what most people, most people do
[42:13] Leanne Elliott: As promised, we're going to get all James Bond on your ass here. For anyone outside the UK, there is a an agency called GCHQ, which is the UK's intelligence, security, and cyber agency. They say their mission is to help keep the country safe. In other words, it's similar to NSA in the US. So this agency is crammed full of the top brains in the country, and the analysts spend their days scanning for changes that might signal a terrorist attack or an event that might threaten the UK in some way. Hilary was called in to help the agency implement change better. But how easy is it to convince the most intelligent people in Britain that change is good for them? Let's rejoin the interview where Al predictably has some little boy questions