# How to lead Gen Z — the key lessons and final thoughts

- **Episode:** [127](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/127.md) (2024-09-12)
- **Type:** other
- **Tags:** gen-z, leadership, final-thoughts
- **Time:** 46:37–56:21 (start 2797s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/127?t=2797](https://truthliesandwork.com/127?t=2797)

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[46:37] Leanne Elliott: So there it is, how to lead Gen Z from senior leaders, business owners, founders, management teams that are actually doing it and doing it incredibly well. That is the story of MAP. And, and, you know, from a, a personal point of view, I'm really excited to see where they go over over the next 5 years, the next 10 years, the next 20 years, and what it all has in store for the, for the team. Half of me can see them becoming this huge company that takes over the accounting world, and the other half believes that they'll stay intentionally small, perhaps even opening up something like an academy for apprentices, or maybe a training centre for managers who want to nurture young talent. And I really hope they let me stick around to keep working with them, especially when they're, uh, they're world famous
[47:21] Al Elliott: Yeah, if you want to learn a bit more about MAP, and I'm sure you do, then go to wearemap.co.uk or go find Paul Barnes or Amanda Wilcox on LinkedIn and go say hi. Tell them you listened to this interview. Tell them you loved it. Before we go, here are some parting words of wisdom from Paul and Amanda. There are probably thousands of listeners nodding along at your story of growth and the challenges with culture. I was going to ask you what advice would you give them, but I want to actually change that slightly. I want to ask both of you, what advice would you give younger Paul and younger Amanda knowing what you know now? That change is inevitable. I said earlier that, that reskinning of MAP that we had to go through, you can't avoid that. There has to come a point where what you were doing or the people that you've got, you need to sort of park it and realize that it was right for a period of time. It's not necessarily because you've got used to it you think it must be right, but it was just right then. It's not necessarily right for what, what's next on your journey. So that idea of moving from startup to grow up and starting to— I, I don't think we have many regrets. Oh, I'll speak on my behalf, not on Amanda's behalf, but I don't have many regrets about what we've done and the, the timings that, that, that we've done things. So even if I was speaking to myself back then, it would probably just be more about like Being ready for it, like psychologically, and expecting it rather than trying to do it differently or try to avoid it. It'd be more about the mindset, I think. Nothing stays the same, and see everything as a journey with different cycles, and don't be afraid to change things. You know, things that you thought were the best things since sliced bread and were going to be amazing forever, one day you might need to rip it up and do something different
[49:05] Leanne Elliott: So, mine's very similar to Paul's. It is that mindset shift. I think early doors, things felt a lot more emotional because it all felt like a personal attack. Any negative thing felt like it was personal. It's not. The saying that you hear people say, it is just business, is true. And you've got to learn just to park that and box it and know that it's not a personal attack on you. It is just part and parcel of business and the journey that people professionally go on and the journey that a business goes on. Probably from a more personal perspective, I suffer a lot from imposter syndrome. There's been a number of times where I felt like maybe I wasn't the right person to be doing the role that I was doing and to move forward with the business. But here I am, 10 years later, I'm still doing my job
[50:07] Al Elliott: One other thing I would like to encourage out is just that young people can be amazing. I think there's such like a narrative at the moment that it's all about entitlement culture and young people are not the same as we used to be and people don't work as hard and All of that sort of stuff. And that may be the case statistically, like there may be not as many, um, hungry, hard-working, career-orientated young people as they used to be, but they're still out there and we continue to find them every year. And we're very fortunate and built a partnership to enable us to do that. But if you can build a business based on youth, it's, it's so exciting, like watching young people, because the rate of development is so quick and they're so humble about it. Because they appreciate us as much as we appreciate them because of how we're helping them develop as well, rather than that they're coming with all the answers. I go into our office now less and less frequently, and when I go into the office— and I'm not saying this to be humble, genuinely— a lot of the time I think, I don't need to be here. Like, not that I've got nothing to do, because you create work for yourself, don't you? And there's always tinkering you can do, there's also things you can do to work on the business. But I walk into an office of people who have got smiles on their faces, they're hardworking, and they're genuinely really good at what they do. That is, for me, the, the most fulfilling thing. And there's no egos there, there's no people that have been there and done it elsewhere and they're coming in and trying to bulldoze things down. They're ready to listen to mine and Amanda's vision, and they're ready to help us to execute that. And as Amanda said, she's, you know, she's been one of those people as well. She's just gone from Strength to strength. And what you might be able to find elsewhere in terms of experience, in terms of done what you want them to have done and done it in a bigger business and all that sort of stuff, is way outweighed by loyalty and adaptability and, and, and hard work and, and the values fit. Me and Amanda have yet to argue in a living— and there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, we've disagreed. We've yet to have like a cross word in 11 years, which considering how chaotic I am, how organized Amanda is, is crazy. Yeah, so very fortunate that I've got a team that I'm very proud of that I get to see develop all the time, and they're pushing the business forward without me. Like genuinely, I say to Amanda all the time, sometimes you'd think this is their business, um, a lot of the time and not mine, the passion that they put into it. And I'm not sure you get that with people that have been there and done it in other businesses because they've not got the same— they've not had the same journey where they've been through the development of MAP with us and it matters to them. Um, and that's what I'm, I'm most proud of. So the, the number one thing I would encourage other people is don't just give up on young people because you've had a bad experience or you made it down the pub tells you it doesn't work. There are fantastic young people out there and you can make it work. Um, you can, you can find very committed, loyal, and talented, hardworking people out there
[53:12] Leanne Elliott: Like I said, they just get it. And it's been such an— such a privilege to even have played the smallest part in their journey and, and see how they have created such an awesome, awesome workplace culture. Guys, Very proud, absolute privilege. If you want to learn more about MAP, then go to wearemap.co.uk or find Paul Barnes or Amanda Wilcox on LinkedIn and go and say hi. A reminder, if you like to hear stories of how organisations big and small have built amazing workplace cultures, then every Thursday we bring you an amazing guest with a great story
[53:48] Al Elliott: And if you want to keep on top of all of the latest news in the workplace and you love a good Agony Aunt segment and you you liked last Tuesday's episode, then you'll like next Tuesday's, because every Tuesday we bring you more of the weekly news roundup. We have September segment, which is called Fresh Voices. I think I said New Voices last time, didn't I? Fresh Voices. And of course, our world-famous Weekly Workplace Surgery, where I put your questions to Leanne. I believe you had something to say. You're about to interrupt me, love
[54:12] Leanne Elliott: I'm sorry, I thought, I thought you'd about to finish. I was gonna say, in talking mistakes, I was listening back to, um, I think it's when we were teasing Ed Williams, and I said that his Um, his co-founder Jamie Lang was off of The Only Way Is Essex, which I think might be one of the most offensive things I might be able to say to Jamie Lang. So apologies. Made in Chelsea, of course. Anyway, um, we're gonna go before we put our foot in it anymore and get even more aggressive comments on our YouTube channel. Do subscribe though, stay around, see what happens, see how, how Steve comes back and puts me down in the future. Um, if you're on audio, hello my friends, you're my favorites. Um, click, click that follow button, subscribe, whatever it is on whatever app you're using so that every episode comes to you every single week. 2 episodes even. Follow us on socials, drop us an email, hello@truthliesandwork.com. If you have any ideas for shows, for guests, anything at all, uh, let us know and we'll, uh, we'll see you—
[55:06] Al Elliott: what day is it?
[55:07] Leanne Elliott: See you on Tuesday
[55:07] Al Elliott: See you on Tuesday. Bye-bye. Bye. Love you. Bye. If you'd like to keep more abreast of the— her— abreast
[55:22] Leanne Elliott: Breast
[55:22] Al Elliott: I did that again
[55:23] Leanne Elliott: Boobies
[55:24] Al Elliott: That's one for the outtakes. Is it a twinkle? Is it a sparkle?
[55:31] Leanne Elliott: There you go
[55:32] Al Elliott: Say whatever you like, my love. Half of this podcast's yours
[55:37] Leanne Elliott: Thank you
[55:38] Al Elliott: The first half, because that's what people listen to. Academy for Apprenticeship. Almost had it. You almost nailed that
[55:47] Leanne Elliott: And I hope I'll still— sorry
[55:53] Al Elliott: Is it your eyes?
[55:53] Leanne Elliott: Stop it
[55:55] Al Elliott: The segment, and you like today's episode. Do that again, Al, because it's not today's episode. And if you like to keep And if you like to keep your head on top of your shoulders, then—
[56:09] Leanne Elliott: That's where I like to keep it
[56:10] Al Elliott: Yeah, yeah, that's probably a good place to keep it. Because we've got the Agony Aunt segment, we've got fuck knows what. Jesus Christ, Al, how is this so difficult?