# The changing face of sick leave

- **Episode:** [128](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/128.md) (2024-09-17)
- **Type:** news-roundup
- **Tags:** sick-leave, absence, wellbeing
- **Time:** 13:10–21:14 (start 790s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/128?t=790](https://truthliesandwork.com/128?t=790)

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[13:10] Leanne Elliott: Well, another interesting article I saw this week came from Business Insider discussing how sick leave has changed since the pandemic and how it might be getting a little more complicated. There may even be a mention of the entitlement amongst Gen Z that you were talking about there, Al. So the article highlights that the US has seen a significant rise in sick leave, with platforms like Dayforce and Gusto reporting more employees taking time off. Experts say this is partly due to Gen Z's influence demanding time off without the guilt older generations often feel. According to the US Bureau of Labor, statistics, many workers still don't have access to sick paid leave, but for those who do, taking time off is becoming more common and acceptable. So HR expert Ru Dooley from Society for Human Resources Management attributes this shift to a cultural change. He notes that while older workers may have been conditioned to work relentlessly, younger generations feel entitled to prioritize their health, mental and physical. So this attitude is creating a new work culture where time off is less stigmatized. The article goes on to say that similar changes are happening in the UK. Research from the Chartered Institute of Personal Development— that's the CIPD— shows an increase in sick days post-pandemic. But according to Professor Sir Kerry Cooper—
[14:31] Al Elliott: the OG, the GOAT—
[14:33] Leanne Elliott: you know who he is. He's been on the pod. He is a former guest. He is professor of organizational psychology at the University of Manchester. As I said, you know him. Um, according to Sekeri, there's more to the story. Presenteeism is also on the rise. So many hybrid workers feel pressured to log in even when they're sick because working from home makes it easier. Presenteeism in our day was when your colleague would come in with a cold and within a week the entire office was down. The bigger question is, how should managers handle this? So both Dooley and Cooper agree that fostering long-term well-being over short-term productivity is crucial. True leadership lies in allowing employees the time to recover, which leads to better engagement and retention in the long run. Uh, new legislation is also playing a role in reshaping sick leave. For, um, instance, California recently increased the minimum sick days from 3 to 5, signaling a possible trend towards more supportive work environments across the US. So we have to ask, are we moving towards a future where taking sick leave is no longer seen as slacking off, but rather a necessary part of a balanced, healthy work life. Al's thoughts?
[15:43] Al Elliott: I don't think I'm qualified to step in on this because I have not had a job since 2001. Um, so I don't know what, you know, I don't, I don't have this sick leave thing. Although what I do know is that when you're self-employed, it's kind of tough because you don't go off sick because things have to get done. Shit has to get done. I like the idea that people are allowed to take sick leave. It does slightly terrify me that the US has just increased it, or California's increased it from 3 days to 5. So that means that— what's that, 5 over 365? I can't even do that maths, but it's not a lot
[16:17] Leanne Elliott: It's only one bout of flu, that, isn't it?
[16:18] Al Elliott: Yeah, exactly. So that's a little bit terrifying. But then the US has never really been great at vacations or sick days. Um, I'd like to think that we're moving towards a future of work where we talk about outcomes rather than inputs. And I'd like the idea that as long as the work gets done, it doesn't matter whether it takes someone 5 days a week or 4 days a week or 3 days a week. I also think that there should be a little bit of— there's a particular word and I can't think of it— like backupism, where every task has got maybe someone who can perhaps pick up from it if someone is sick. Because That's why you come into work when— well, there's 2 reasons you come into work when you're sick, uh, or ill, if you're from the UK. Uh, firstly, because you want to show everyone you're a martyr and you want everyone to go, oh my God, you're so, you're so brave. You— those lot can get in the bin. But the second is because something has to get done. And I think that having that sort of like that backup system where I can't come into work, but Sandra knows where I'm up to, and Sandra, do me a favor, click these 3 buttons, do this, just pop this report in there and it's done. And in fact, that's where AI could well come in. They could They could— AI could well be our backup system for work, uh, that if you can't get in, you can just defer to AI and it will do 80% of the job for you, and then you can pick up. But then that's probably a dangerous road to go down
[17:36] Leanne Elliott: Yeah, I think the thing that concerns me is I understand the social norms of it. When I was in my, probably my mid, mid to late 20s, it was a badge of honour if you'd only had like one sick day in 3 years. And the reality was I was, I was ill many more times than that. And I'd go into work really unwell, usually make somebody else unwell, struggle for 3 weeks, couldn't shift this, this cold or whatever it was that I had, um, because I wasn't taking the time to rest and recover. So actually my productivity was probably down for 3 weeks. Whereas if I'd just taken 3 days off, then, you know, it would have, it would have, I would have bounced back quicker and my performance and productivity would have gone up. When I managed, I'd see people come in sick. I'd try and send them home. They were very engaged. They didn't want to. I think the logging in from home makes that really difficult. You know, I think I'd say if you're a leader, and I get it, especially if you're a founder, if you have a sick day, if you're not well enough to be in the office, if you've made that decision, I'm not physically or mentally well enough to be in the office today or be working today, then don't work. Because you logging in from home to make sure that you're there if the team needs you, or saying, oh, I'm taking it, taking a sick day, but if you need me, I'll answer my phone. It sets a precedent of what's expected within the company culture. And I think as time goes on, and we're seeing the increases in burnout, we're seeing the, you know, the decrease in physical health overall, and particularly with, in the UK, with the state of the NHS is in, in America as well, with the cost of medical care over there, we really don't want our people to push ourselves more than they should be. We want them to stay fit and healthy, and that also means giving them time to rest. recover. So yeah, that would be my— as an individual, it's up to you, isn't it? And you will, you'll find your, your happy place with it. If you are a founder, encourage people to take the time off they need. It's, um, it's the most basic of humanness, isn't it, if you're really unwell?
[19:35] Al Elliott: Very, very wise words indeed. We're going to take a very short break. We'll be back with part 2 of our segment on Fresh Voices and of course the world-famous Weekly Workplace Surgery. If you don't come back, then we're going to talk about you behind your back. See you in a second
[21:08] Leanne Elliott: But come back
[21:09] Al Elliott: Yeah, come back. Definitely come back because Nudge isn't as good as this, so come back
[21:12] Leanne Elliott: I'll cut that out