# Does a psychology background make a better leader?

- **Episode:** [129](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/129.md) (2024-09-19)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** psychology, leadership, better-leader
- **Time:** 18:07–21:52 (start 1087s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/129?t=1087](https://truthliesandwork.com/129?t=1087)

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[18:07] Harry Cramer: Seamless
[18:44] Al Elliott: It can
[18:52] Leanne Elliott: But come back
[18:53] Al Elliott: Yeah, come back. Definitely come back, because Nudge isn't as good as this, so come back. I'll cut that out. Keep that in
[18:59] Leanne Elliott: Welcome back. As we just heard, Harry does have a background in psychology. I wanted to know if that helped make him a better manager
[19:10] Al Elliott: So let's rejoin the interview with Leanne and Harry, where Harry talks about good management styles, working with his wife, and this loneliness
[19:17] Leanne Elliott: So let's move on to your business and your experiences. I mean, in, in terms that you say you've got a psychology background, you mentioned there that your DNA is, is within the, the organization. Tell us about that. Tell us about your your culture? How do you manage it? How do you manage your people? What are the values that, that shape your approach?
[19:40] Harry Cramer: I think probably the first thing to say is you and I have something in common, which is that we're both fortunate enough to work with our partners. Um, so it isn't just me, it's, it's, uh, my wife as well, who has so much involvement in the business and has been absolute bedrock as well. So That's something I'm very lucky in, and it does give all of us the opportunity, I think, to perhaps question ourselves, perhaps make sure that we're making the right decisions, because it is lonely. You know, you had a really, really interesting podcast called— I think it was called The Lonely Manager, The Lonely Worker, something like that. It's episode 104 or 105. I'm sure you'll link to it
[20:24] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[20:26] Harry Cramer: Really interesting, and it describes the journey of being self-employed absolutely magnificently. It's really articulate. So copy and paste from that episode, I think, in terms of what it's like and some of the challenges that you can have running a business. Of course, what's brilliant, and again, you, I imagine, and Al as well, will be able to empathize with this. What's brilliant is you can also feed some of your own values into it and, and try and craft a business into being something that you can legitimately be proud of. And I love that. I absolutely love that. And I am proud of it. There's not a day that goes by where I'm not so proud of everything that all of our wonderful team achieve, because we do some really good work and we get some lovely feedback for it. And Interestingly, actually, every induction that we have, so every new member of staff, I have about an hour and a half session with them where we go through what some of our values are. And one of them is about being proud, because I think it's so important. I think you should really feel proud in what you do. You should be engaged in the mission. You should feel— you should just feel like you've done a good job, because if you've done your job well, you've helped somebody phenomenally well. So it's funny you mentioned about values. That specifically is one of the values that we try to, that we try to sort of encourage and try to promote