# Fresh Voices: Anna Papalia and Interviewology - **Episode:** [130](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/130.md) (2024-09-24) - **Type:** news-roundup - **Tags:** interviewing, hiring, fresh-voices, anna-papalia - **Time:** 17:43–22:50 (start 1063s) - **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/130?t=1063](https://truthliesandwork.com/130?t=1063) --- [17:43] Leanne Elliott: Welcome back to our September segment. We are calling it Fresh Voices. That's not true, I'm calling it Fresh Voices. Al insists on calling it New Voices, but here we are. We basically want to showcase the thought leaders that have caught our attention and share their fresh insights on the modern workplace. So this week's fresh voice is Anna Papalia. Excellent name [18:06] Al Elliott: Love it, Anna [18:07] Leanne Elliott: Anna is the CEO and author of Interviewology [18:10] Al Elliott: Oh, oh, that— I'm jealous. I want to come up with that word. Oh, love it. Well done, Anna [18:16] Leanne Elliott: So Interviewology is a boutique consulting firm that teaches job seekers and hiring managers how to interview better. Here is a shocking statistic for you, Al. Nearly 90% of hiring managers have never been trained on how to interview properly. Can you imagine the most critical business decision being made simply on gut, whether the interviewer likes the candidate. Forget about actually trying to assess whether they'll do the job well, um, just, just, you know, sentiment at best [18:47] Al Elliott: Gut feeling. Well, I've got a good feeling about Roger [18:50] Leanne Elliott: I mean, of course, it goes without saying this is going to lead to unconscious biases, probably conscious biases as well, and poor decision-making. And this is the message that Anna is getting out there alongside Interviewology's mission to change the way we approach hiring. So Anna shared the short video on LinkedIn with a great tip when interviewing. Most hiring managers don't shut up in the interview process. My name is Anna Popalia. I wrote the book Interviewology: The New Science of Interviewing. I've conducted over 10,000 interviews. Most hiring managers conduct interviews like this: Oh, thanks so much for coming in, really appreciate it. Let me tell you a little bit about me, and let me tell you about the department. And let me tell you about the projects that you work on. And let me tell you about the clients that you might work with. And oh, the team. And let me tell you about our mission and our values. And they don't, they don't ask you any questions about you. And they don't even leave time in the interview for you to ask questions. So all they're really looking for is someone to be agreeable. If it were me, I would not be interested in that type of position. But if all you're looking for is money and a paycheck, then that's all you got to do. But if you're looking for a great opportunity, if you're looking for the right job, not just any job, and you come across a hiring manager who interviews like this, and you're really well prepared, and you go in and this is the type of interview you have, it's disappointing, it's disrespectful, it's a waste of your time, and quite frankly, a waste of theirs. Because they're not really looking for great talent, they're just looking for someone to give orders [20:22] Al Elliott: Anna, if you're listening, and I hope you are, I think we should get you on the pod. I think, I think this is really interesting. Fun fact, I wrote a book about 10 years ago called Chatology: The, uh, The Art of Small Talk [20:33] Leanne Elliott: You did? [20:33] Al Elliott: I did. And I think I even had the, had the domain chatology.com, uh, but I've, I forgot about it and it's all gone now. But that's a shame. But, um, I love anything where it's -ology. I am really, really— I'm a big, big fan of that [20:43] Leanne Elliott: Like psychology? [20:44] Al Elliott: Like, well, no, I, I'm— I like to make up words like dogology, and you go, oh, it's the science of dog behavior. But no, this is, this is absolutely brilliant. I, I really, really like all the points she makes I mean, if you were to take one thing away from it, and maybe, Anna, tell me if I've got this wrong, but you take one thing away from it, it's like, just learn how to listen, mate [21:01] Leanne Elliott: Yeah. And I think it's really good, actually, as equally good advice for candidates. If you're at an interview and you can barely get a word in edgewise, I mean, happy days. Chances are you smile, nod, and agree with everything the interviewer says. You'll probably get the job. Um, but you want to work in a workplace that cares a bit more than that and is going to engage you a bit more than that. So, I think it's interesting. It's, it's what we call candidate experience. I could harp on all day about how recruitment is a science and probably the most science-based aspect of occupational and organisational psychology, and how actually there's over 100 years of research that shows exactly the recruitment methods you need to use to predict future job performance. But I won't bore you with that because apparently 90% of you just want to go on gut feeling. But if you're interested, I'll leave a couple of links we've chatted about on the show before. And of course, my email is always in the show notes. Get in touch. But yeah, Anna [21:48] Al Elliott: Thanks, Leanne [21:49] Leanne Elliott: Fabulous. And the content you're putting out on LinkedIn, beautiful [21:52] Al Elliott: And another real quick reminder that, yes, all right, we might be going— in terms of the recruitment market, we might be going slightly into the opposite where we were this time last year, where maybe the balance has moved back towards the employer, uh, rather than— this time last year, employees were knocking back jobs and they were in control. Maybe it's skewed slightly towards the employer. These things come in waves, these things come in cycles. If you get it right now, then the next time that the power is in the employee's hands or the potential candidate's hands, you're going to be sorted because you'll know how to listen and you'll listen to everything Anna said [22:25] Leanne Elliott: And more than that, as a business owner, do you not just want to be exceptional? Do you not want to be the best of the best? You want to be the best amongst your competitors. And being the best is about being the best when business is good and the market is good as much as it is when the market is bad and you're trying to attract talent. If you want to be exceptional, if you want to create amazing workplaces, That's, that's an all-year-round, whatever economic cycle we're in, job. Um, you want to be the best, so be the best, right?