# Workplace Surgery: The Jekyll-and-Hyde Boss

- **Episode:** [144](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/144.md) (2024-11-12)
- **Type:** workplace-surgery
- **Tags:** boss, management, workplace-relationships
- **Time:** 37:44–44:03 (start 2264s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/144?t=2264](https://truthliesandwork.com/144?t=2264)

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[37:44] Al Elliott: Okay, question number 3: I am really struggling to understand my boss's Jekyll and Hyde personality. Getting juicy already. At work, she's incredibly harsh, berating team members publicly, sending very abrupt emails at midnight, and creating such a tense atmosphere that people literally hide when they hear her coming. The confusing part is that I recently saw her at my local community centre where she volunteers teaching elderly people how to use computers. She was patient, kind, and absolutely lovely, completely different from her work persona. It's like she's 2 different people. Why is she like this in work when she's clearly a perfectly lovely person out of the workplace?
[38:25] Leanne Elliott: Yes, we do, we do adjust our— how we present ourselves and our personality or identity is slightly different to different people, don't we? I'm very different, um, on— I was gonna say I'm very different on the show than I am with clients, but I'm not actually. I'm very different with Al on a Saturday, um, than I am necessarily when I'm talking to a client who's going through a really tough time with a member of staff or something. So, yeah, there's going to be some light and shade to your personality and your character that you're going to bring to different scenarios. For it to be that extreme, though, yeah, that's unsettling, isn't it? I think it's more a case that it sounds like your manager has inherited some really bad habits from their manager. It sounds like maybe they haven't had much training, much development in terms of their own leadership capability. It sounds quite— coercive, doesn't it, in terms of style, which is very typical of kind of the— so yeah, certain managers from the boomer generation. So it could well be that she's inherited these, um, bad behaviors, which we have seen some through research actually. Um, the Oak and Gage research that we talked about on the pod last week dug into this as well. And yes, we are seeing millennials as well inheriting some ineffective leadership behavior. So it could be a bit of that. I think it's— what's really tricky is that you can understand it And that could help to an extent, but you understanding it isn't going to go very far to making this toxic environment your manager's creating okay. It might give you a bit of compassion and a bit of empathy in certain moments, but it's not really going to change the toxicity and, and the impact that's having on, on the team and morale and culture and performance. Um, so it's really tricky. I mean, if you want to try and do something about it, I think it maybe depends on the relationship you have with your manager, um, or whether you can strike up a, a less formal relationship with your manager outside of work. But you've got to kind of ask yourself, at what point is, is this your problem? Like, I appreciate it's impacting you in terms of work, but what you can do to actually change your management's behavior without somebody else in the organization who has more authority in terms of, of their performance and manager's performance, um, then anything you do is really going to rely on The goodwill and openness to change of your manager, and that's a really hard thing to know if that person is open to. It sounds like they're probably not if they're cracking on with this type of behavior in the workplace. Again, I guess it comes back to the first question, to what end are you trying to dig into this? Ultimately, if you really want to know, you're going to have to ask her. That's all we can chat and predict. And come up with different theories as to why, um, there's this dissonance in, in behavior and character. Um, but ultimately, only your manager is gonna know. If you think it is escalating to a point of bullying, if this is becoming some kind of, um, real, you know, real serious toxicity in the workplace in terms of the manager's behavior, then escalate it. Always have to escalate that. Um, if people are fearful, if people are hiding, um, then that does sound like something you'd want to escalate anyway. So maybe consider doing that as well, whether it's to HR, whether it's to a senior manager
[41:30] Al Elliott: Yeah
[41:30] Leanne Elliott: A coach, a peer, whoever it is that you can. But yeah, it's a tricky one, isn't it?
[41:37] Al Elliott: It is. I think what you need is— there's a previous guest from way back when called Rob Kalvarovsky, who's coming on again as a hot take in a few weeks' time. He's written a book called Antidotes to an Asshole Boss, and he's got lots of stuff. Basically, he's the asshole boss guy because he used to be an asshole boss, and he's got some really, really good stuff on there. One thing, because I was editing it yesterday, one thing he said during that interview Uh, to me was that everybody's got fear, and asshole bosses are usually the most scared of all the people. Um, so there's a very good chance that this person is just a lovely person in normal, but comes into work and they are terrified of whatever. And whether it's like they're worried that they're going to get the sack, they're worried they're not going to hit their targets, they're worried that you're not going to turn on her, they're— what perhaps she's worried that you lot hate her. And that's why she's like it. She just preactive— proactively goes out there as horrible to you. Um, or maybe not horrible, but maybe a little bit stern with you. Um, just to, uh, uh, just in case she finds out that you don't like her. Um, another one to look at is the previous episode, 143, which is, uh, with Kate Waterfall-Hill and Linda the bad manager. Um, she, through sort of like humor, she shows all kinds of ways in which managers or behaviors managers exhibit, uh, um, and the reasons behind them. So I didn't do that very well, Kate. Sorry. Go back and listen to our episode 143
[42:55] Leanne Elliott: Yeah, I think there's lots you can do to, to read up and understand the behavior that this person is enacting. But ultimately, as I said, maybe I'm just a bit pessimistic today because my paracetamol's wearing off. But, you know, you understand it, it's gonna have a bit of empathy, and it's probably helped, really helped with your leadership development, actually. You learn as much from bad managers, probably learn more from bad managers than you do from good managers. So probably great for your development. But I think also there's a Yeah, there's something that needs to be escalated here, I think, doesn't there, Al? If that toxicity is causing that much fear in the team
[43:26] Al Elliott: Yeah, potentially. But again, going back to the previous question, you know, pick your battles. Is it— do you want to get involved in this? So what is it do you want? Do you want her, this, this manager, to be a better boss, or do you just want to be able to cope with it? And if it's a question of just coping with it, perhaps, you know, perhaps— I'm worried I'm saying that this— that I might get a stare from Leanne, but perhaps you just Pick your battle with that one and go, right, she's not, you know, she's not bullying, she's just a bit frightening
[43:52] Leanne Elliott: It'll buy you time, but I think ultimately that environment is gonna— you're gonna disengage from that environment over time if this person remains. Um, but yeah, it might, might buy you some patience and understanding in the interim