# Apple's employee privacy lawsuit - **Episode:** [152](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/152.md) (2024-12-10) - **Type:** news-roundup - **Tags:** apple, privacy, lawsuit, employees - **Time:** 12:27–18:33 (start 747s) - **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/152?t=747](https://truthliesandwork.com/152?t=747) --- [12:27] Leanne Elliott: Um, I have seen an employee lawsuit that I thought was quite interesting. It accuses Apple of spying on its workers [12:34] Al Elliott: Now, I heard— I did read a bit about this. Yeah, you heard about this one? [12:38] Leanne Elliott: So if you haven't heard about it, it's making headlines because it accuses a company, as I said, of spying on employees even when they're off the clock and using their own personal devices. So the suit was filed by Amar Bhakta, an Apple employee, 2020, and it raises some serious questions about privacy in the workplace, especially at a company— did you just yawn? [13:02] Al Elliott: I'm sorry, my ears are still blocked. I'm trying to unblock them by yawning. I wasn't yawning at you. Carry on, carry on [13:07] Leanne Elliott: Is now the time for that? [13:08] Al Elliott: I was trying. You were talking— [13:11] Leanne Elliott: Should I start again? [13:12] Al Elliott: No, you were talking about Amar Bhakta. We got this. 2020, and, and basically he's worried about the privacy in the workplace [13:18] Leanne Elliott: Yes, he is. And it does raise some questions, as I said, especially for a company like Apple. It does, you know, it's known for protecting the privacy of its customers, right? For example, the podcast Now, any analytics from Apple are basically useless because of all the privacy. Shift in privacy rules dropped podcasting listening numbers that we can see by about 25% across all podcasts. Thanks, Apple [13:39] Al Elliott: So famously— [13:40] Leanne Elliott: cheers, mate— famously private. So back to this case filed in California state court claims that Apple's employment policies blur the boundaries between work and personal life in a way that's intrusive. So according to the lawsuit, Apple employees are required to use Apple-made devices for work. Makes sense. But since these devices often belong to the employees themselves, they end up having to use their own personal iCloud accounts, which Apple can monitor and allegedly Allegedly, this surveillance includes access to emails, photos, notes, and even real-time location data. The suit goes so far as to describe working for Apple as being trapped in a prison yard where employees are constantly watched. Bactor also claims that Apple's policies harmed his career prospects by limiting his ability to speak publicly about digital advertising and forcing him to remove details about his job from LinkedIn. Again, what'd I say? Secrets, not good. This isn't the first time though that Apple's privacy practices for employees have come under fire. Former employees have previously raised concerns about the company's access to personal data. The lawsuit adds new details highlighting policies that require employees to use work-owned iCloud accounts but reportedly discourage creating separate work-only accounts, which does leave little room for employees to separate their personal and professional lives. So this lawsuit has been filed under California's Private Attorneys General Act, which allows employees to sue on behalf of the state for labor rights violations. If Apple is found liable, the company could face significant penalties for each violation multiplied by the number of employees impacted [15:29] Al Elliott: Oh yeah, that's a big number [15:31] Leanne Elliott: Yeah, so it is, it is, it is a massive lawsuit if this, if this, these allegations do prove to be true. And as I said, you know, a little bit of dissonance between what Apple has been famously known for in terms of privacy when protecting its customers. Al's thoughts? [15:50] Al Elliott: Right, I don't really get this whole privacy thing. And I know I'm a bit weird when it comes to that, but number one is I want Google to track me looking at everything on the internet, because then when I go to my Google News feed, I see stuff that's interesting to me. I want to see relevant adverts. I don't want to see an advert for a space hopper because I don't like space. That's a weird— why did you choose space hoppers, Al? Hmm, Freudian. But, but you— I want to see relevant adverts. Um, you know, that's why I don't mind them reading Yeah. And I just think, if you want to be private, what are you doing? You want to be private? Now I know that I'm— I look forward to your letters. I know that people are going to be like, whoa, no, I want the privacy, but I don't get it. So for me, I'm like, well, why don't you just go and get another phone and use that at home? I've heard of people who have 3 or 4 old iPhones, one of which they used to give to their kids so they can play around on games and take pictures, whatever. One of which they have which has just got their photo on it, their photos on it. so they can take pictures of the kids. Mind you, having said that, we don't have kids, so maybe that could be a privacy issue. But either way, I— maybe this is just a very middle-class white, um, solution to it of saying, hey, why don't you just buy another phone? But I can't help but think, you know, maybe that is the solution. You have a work phone and then you have a personal phone [17:03] Leanne Elliott: And I think this is the problem with the— and why the lawsuit has come up, is that there isn't that segregation with work and life, um, it seems. Um, important to note that Apple hasn't commented on the lawsuit yet, um, so we can't bring you their perspective. One thing I did see, and I think the thing is, is that we— I think we normalize changes in general privacy, and I think the internet has really disrupted that in terms of— it used to be very easy to be private, and now it's quite difficult, to the point where if you don't have an online presence at all, it's almost more suspicious than having a bit of a, you know, a, a not very detailed online presence. But I was watching an old film, an old film the other day from the noughties, Charlie's Angels, you know, with Cameron Diaz and all that [17:46] Al Elliott: Um, I remember that film and I hadn't very well [17:49] Leanne Elliott: I hadn't. Yeah, it was a good film and different reasons we enjoyed it. Um, but what I, I'd forgotten the story, the kind of storyline, and they were basically fighting the baddie who was going to put a tracking device in everybody's mobile phone so that they could track where a human, any human was on the planet at any one time. And I was like, huh [18:12] Al Elliott: Um, yeah [18:18] Leanne Elliott: So yeah, I think technology has maybe, maybe relaxed us, maybe normalized some of these tracking behaviors. I can understand why people want to be, want to be private. You're a marketer, so I understand why you don't [18:28] Al Elliott: So after this very short break, we'll be back with this week's hot take. Leanne, who have we got in this week?