# Workplace Surgery: Burnout and KPIs

- **Episode:** [152](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/152.md) (2024-12-10)
- **Type:** workplace-surgery
- **Tags:** burnout, kpis, workplace-surgery
- **Time:** 32:04–39:02 (start 1924s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/152?t=1924](https://truthliesandwork.com/152?t=1924)

---

[32:04] Leanne Elliott: Yes
[32:04] Al Elliott: I've recently been promoted to Head of Sales and now manage a team of 12. Well done. The team's numbers are good, but I'm getting a bit uncomfortable with the relentless focus of KPIs. Every Monday morning, everyone's numbers are displayed on screens around the office. Brutal. From cold calls made to deals closed, everything is tracked, ranked, and publicly shared. The current leadership team lives by the mantra, what gets measured gets managed. Very 1980s Tom Peters, that. But I'm seeing concerning signs in my team. Even though we're hitting our numbers, the constant pressure feels unsustainable. I'm watching people burn out in real time, and when I raise these concerns, I'm told this system is what made us us. Should I challenge the current way of working? Will people even care if I bring up burnout? Lee, what would you do in this situation? In fact, no, what would— not necessarily what would you do, what would be your advice? for this person writing in
[32:54] Leanne Elliott: Fundamentally, you are operating in what is known as a results culture where performance is prioritized and it's all about a fast pace. Very— and we see this very much in sales organizations, recruitment organizations, very target-driven organizations. And the message from leadership is very much, we are about results, we are about hustle, that's how we do it. It's fast, it burns through talent, and that's okay because we recruit Constantly, we have a pipeline coming in again. Typically see that with recruitment consultancies. It is the way it is, and that's coming from the top. Implementing any kind of change in your business is going to be impossible without the buy-in from senior leaders. So you are not going to single-handedly be able to overhaul this culture if you can't get the buy-in of the leadership team. Then it ain't gonna work. That said, there are things that you can do to protect your team and manage your. Um, your little climate within your team climate within the, the broader culture, really your team culture within the broader culture. And I think the thing to do with that is, first of all, and I know I repeat myself a lot, but have a conversation with your team. Are they burning out? Are they struggling? Are there other things? It might not be the culture, it might be clunky processes that are adding to their frustrations and workload. We don't want to make any assumptions. So I think it'd be a really nice thing in your one-to-ones to kind of say, look, how are you doing?
[34:14] Al Elliott: I—
[34:14] Leanne Elliott: and the reason I ask is I've noticed that the constant focus on performance, on targets, the way the office is set up, can be quite overwhelming. It's very overstimulating. Sometimes I find that that can add to my stress levels. How are you finding it? And just get a sense of how your team are, where they are, how stressed they are. It might be that half your team thrive in that environment. It might be that there are some people struggling. And once you know that, you can start to maybe look at some interventions you could do on a team level to help with that. And really, that's going to be about making sure the relationships within the team are great, making sure you don't have any toxic behaviors, any sharking-type behaviors. Yes, we need to hit our targets, and it sounds like you are, but we can do that together as a collective and make sure every individual also has the opportunity to shine. Make sure that any toxic behaviors like that are not tolerated in your team. And I think from the sounds of it, you have the power to do that because you're But also in an organisation that operates in a way that is so target-driven, if you have these behaviours that breed over time, that's gonna inhibit performance. And that's your argument to go to leadership in terms of why you performance manage that situation, 'cause ultimately it's gonna impact performance. So it's making sure things like toxic behaviours are eliminated, not tolerated, making sure you're setting clear boundaries for your staff. Don't text them and email them after hours, or indeed agree the times that you'll text and email, demand their attention. And then look at other activities that could help them. manage stress levels. If you have an EAP program within your organization, have a look at that, the types of resources that are available, whether it be some counseling sessions, some coaching sessions, whether it be physical activities. There's lots of different things you can do to help people with their individual levels of resilience. But I think ultimately, at this point, it doesn't sound as though you're going to be able to overhaul the organizational culture. What you might be able to do is if you do some of these things and your performance as a team increases, and that's likely because we know there's a correlation between positive wellbeing, positive engagement, and work performance, then you might get the attention of your leadership team then. And the, the perfect scenario with that is you're going to have then the data to provide them in terms of what you did, the changes you've made in the name of positive culture and wellbeing, and the positive impact that had on performance. At that point, you might be able to bring the leadership team around to your way of thinking. But until then, it sounds like you might be on your own on this one
[36:45] Al Elliott: I think that's really cleverly, um, to, to, to do a little micro experiment, get the data, and then go and prove it. Because it— I think you're right, you're in a sales-driven environment. Key points you made there which I think are really good is number one is that potentially a lot of people there enjoy that. You know, if you, if you go to the people working in the city, in New York City, in London City, in finance and stuff, They thrive on that for a short period of time, and then they, then they tend to burn out. So there's that. So it might be that you, you are worried about this, but other people aren't. So definitely ask them. And, and as I said, I think this is the environment. You can't really do much to change it. So just find ways in which you can actually thrive within that environment. And, you know, if you're good at sales, then you're going to go to another place and it's probably going to be exactly the same. That's the whole point. Whole Yeah. point of sales departments. I've done sales. We used to write all that— write our deals up on the board. This is before we had screens. We used to have a big whiteboard, right, my board, so everyone could see what you're up to. So, but then one thing which did happen in this company was on a Friday, usually there was 2 people who did their target by Thursday afternoon. And on a Friday, often what would happen is they would ring around, get deals, and give it to the people like me who were struggling a little bit. We'd get a couple of them, and then, then Monday, first 2 we got Monday morning, we'd give them back to And and that was kind of like a nice thing, and it could be that that's sort of the way that you want your place to work. But yeah, I think what Leanne says there: we're not going for systemic change necessarily here. We're just going to like right. These are the parameters. Let's see how we can work within that. Excellent, Leanne. I love it. Okay, here's another question. I this person's written in said I work remotely as a senior account manager, and we first transitioned to hybrid working two years ago. I was over the moon. It gave me the chance to move close to my family while keeping. Keeping the job I love. At first, everything felt like it clicked— better flexibility, more time for personal priorities, and fewer stressful commutes. But over time, I found myself struggling with work-life balance. It's hard to fully switch off when your house doubles as your office. That's a really good point. Our house doubles as a studio, an office, and also a house for 2 dogs. I feel like I'm constantly on, answering emails late into the evening or feeling the pressure to be available at all hours. My boundaries between work and personal time have started to blur, and it's left me feeling drained and less motivated. Motivated, motivated. I love the flexibility remote work gives me, but I'm wondering how to set clearer boundaries and find a better balance. Lee, what are your thoughts on this?