# Financial literacy, social mobility, and the future of GoHenry

- **Episode:** [155](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/155.md) (2024-12-19)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** financial-literacy, social-mobility, future
- **Time:** 36:19–57:10 (start 2179s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/155?t=2179](https://truthliesandwork.com/155?t=2179)

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[36:19] Leanne Elliott: Was—
[36:19] Al Elliott: did any feelings in the team change now that you're a little bit more perhaps cash rich? I don't know. Talk me through the story
[36:25] Louise Hill: Yeah, I think Only if you let it. There's a potential danger there that team members kind of think, oh, we're all right now, and take their foot off the gas, where really what you need to do is keep going. I think, you know, for a lot of the team members, certainly in the early days, people probably didn't realize how close to the edge We came and I think that's the same for most startups. You have days where you are genuinely wondering, can you make payroll in 2 months' time or in 3 months' time? And the pressure of that when you have a team of people whose livelihoods and mortgages and rental bills depend on you, the pressure of that is intense, and it's not fair to share all of that downwards with the team. But yeah, there is a risk that it can, I suppose, make people breathe a sigh of relief and step back, and you can't let that happen. But in terms of actually changing the culture, No, no, not if your culture is strong. Um, you know, you did— the, the risk would be people start spending foolishly, and, um, and you need to make sure that doesn't happen
[38:00] Leanne Elliott: The mission at GoHenry is so, so important to Louise and her team, and from a psychological point of view, it's actually one of the most important aspects of engaging employees and creating an amazing workplace culture. It's called reason, and it's one of the 7 foundations of a great work culture in the RX7 Blueprint that I use with my private clients. So reason at work is about finding meaning in what you do. It's what turns a job into something more fulfilling. When you see how your work actually contributes to something bigger, that's really cool, and it's easier to stay motivated and engaged. And that connection helps you focus, perform better, and feel a real sense of achievement. It's also a huge boost for well-being because knowing that our work matters can make stressful days feel worthwhile and give us strength to push through the challenges. For companies, it's a game changer as well. People are more likely to stay loyal when they feel aligned with their role and the organization's values. It also creates a positive culture where everyone feels part of something important and works better together. So whether you're building something new or supporting others, having reason makes all the difference. It's not just about getting the job done, it's about feeling proud of what you're doing. And when people feel that way, They're happier, they're motivated, and they're ready to tackle whatever comes their way. And GoHenry's reason or mission is to help younger people understand money better so they can craft the life they want. I'll ask Louise to explain why she's so passionate about this
[39:37] Al Elliott: Talk to me more about how GoHenry is actually changing the way that the younger people are thinking about money
[39:42] Louise Hill: Yeah, it's the links between financial literacy And wellbeing, general wellbeing are very close. Financial, if you wind it back, financial education is a key determinant in lifetime financial outcomes. So that's a grand statement. What do I mean by that? It's a really important tool when it comes to social mobility
[40:16] Al Elliott: Yeah
[40:17] Louise Hill: So if individuals are taught financial literacy, financial skills to be confident with money when they're young, it has a massive impact on how much they earn in their working life, whether they set up a business themselves or not, whether they save for their future, whether they have a savings buffer for all of those You know, lumps in the road that happen when you're an adult, when your boiler blows up or your car breaks down. Even things like how much pension pot they have. If they learn about money when they're young, it changes behaviors that mean people are better insulated from the knocks that come in adult life. And that means it's also—
[41:11] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[41:12] Louise Hill: really important for social mobility. It can help disadvantaged young people, those from minority backgrounds, to have the confidence to succeed in the workplace, to start new businesses. And, you know, we did a piece of research with a group called Development Economics, which is a research consultancy, to look at the different life outcomes of people who Did have financial education as a child and those who didn't. And I won't blind you with stats, but those who didn't receive financial education as a child were more likely to be unemployed or learning less today than those who did. And 40% of them, just think about this, have no savings at all. No savings buffer at all
[42:04] Al Elliott: Wow
[42:05] Louise Hill: Kids who do receive financial education, 46% more likely to start a business than those who don't, which all by itself would add 120,000 new jobs to the UK economy every year. And those individuals will be £70,000 richer in retirement. So they'll have £70,000 more in their pension pot. That's a sea change in people's life outcomes. You know, that really makes a societal difference. That's to the individuals. But when you wrap all of that up, it means that prioritizing financial education at an early age would inject an extra £7 billion into the UK economy every year
[42:56] Al Elliott: Is Britain still an all right place, a good place to start a business?
[42:59] Louise Hill: UK is a great place to start a business. Yeah. Yeah. The stereotype, I suppose, of an entrepreneur is still somebody who looks a little bit like Mark Zuckerberg. It does tend to be, the image does tend to be a late 20s white bloke. But no, the UK is a great place to start a business. There are all sorts of, there's an incredible angel network of investors out there looking for great business ideas to invest in. There's a large number of support networks and accelerators and things like that that entrepreneurs can seek out and get support and advice from. I think the angel funding and VC funding environment is really strong. I am going to say where I think there is a gap at the moment is in the later stage funding. So I'm going to call it growth funding. When you're talking about figures like $40, $50 million. Our experience at GoHenry was that that was harder to find in the UK. We found it successfully in the US. And that's something I've been quite vocal about in industry groups and with government. And I know I'm not the only one. There are things being put in place, not least the changes to the pension funds investment regulations to encourage more investment of that kind of size into fast-growing tech and non-tech businesses. But no, the UK is a great place to start a business
[44:57] Al Elliott: How are you gonna balance being a CEO and having a family? Surely that can't— you can't be good at both of them at the same time
[45:04] Louise Hill: I think anybody who's got a family, is a consummate juggler. And if you are working in whatever job you're doing and you have a family, you're an even better juggler. And maybe if you're a CEO, you're an even better— I don't know. I've always been the main breadwinner in the family. So, you know, I've grown up juggling and I think most parents do that all the time. My kids are now quite a lot older. They're 23 and 26, and that helps. So they are, you know, they're pretty self-sufficient. But yeah, at the start when they were 7 and 9 and I divorced, so it was just me, it was a struggle. You know, it was working nights, it was working weekends, working holidays. But if you believe in what you're doing, you, you know, you soldier on and you find a way to make it all happen. Yeah, in those early years, you know, I had a well-paid corporate job. And so to build this We had to cancel holidays abroad. I even sat the kids down and talked to them about getting rid of Sky, which we did for a few years. You know, we really cut back on household expenses and everything so that I could live on a much reduced— the family could live on a much reduced salary. But I felt It was really important to bring this idea to life and make it reality. I don't know whether this is just women, this first view. You know, after X decades, you know, somebody's in their 50s, they've probably had 30 years in the workplace. So after decades in demanding roles, I think people are taking stock and seeking opportunities that align with their values or allow them more time for personal growth. If I think about my parents' generation, they went to work, they had so many years at work, and then they retired and they were old when they retired. And they had their retirement and enjoyed it. If you look at today's generations, I mean, some of the life expectancy forecasts for my kids' generation is living to 100, 110, 120. If you think about how long that might mean in the workplace, I don't think the world is made up anymore of you go to work and you do a job and you kind of do that and climb the ladder. to the end of your career. People are reinventing themselves. So they might do one particular work in one particular sector for a period of time. But I think there is, yeah, I think there is in the 50s, there is kind of a stocktake. And I think more and more women, but men as well, are then thinking, okay, Am I doing what I want to do for the next stage of my life? And should I step off this hamster wheel or this corporate ladder or whatever it is that they're doing and do something that aligns more with how I want to live my life right now or my values? And the other view on that is You know, there is a very intense period, particularly for women still, when you have very young children and you become a super juggler trying to run a career and a household and young kids. But there's also another intense juggling period when your kids are much older and perhaps you have elderly parents that you're now having to care for, and you've got teenagers who need you a huge amount
[49:36] Al Elliott: Right
[49:38] Louise Hill: And again, it is still the case that a lot of that falls onto women. So that's another pinch point where that I think can trigger women to stop and think about how they're spending their working time and if that is something that they want to continue doing. I guess so that I don't ramble on about this forever, what matters is That young girls and women see people like them flourishing in whatever career or work environment that they choose. And for me, that's the best way to empower women to succeed no matter what their age is. Every business wants good people, to state the absolutely obvious. So whatever it takes to support and encourage to succeed different groups of your team is important. So whether that is brand new graduates who are launching themselves into the work environment for the first time ever, you know, hell, that there are things you have to adapt and adjust as a people manager and as a business to help them. settle into a workplace environment, understand what's appropriate work behavior and what isn't, help them learn. People with young children, you adapt, you know, there are things that you adapt as an employer to help them succeed. I think that goes for every group. So I think that's the nub of how employers can make both make their business welcoming for those different demographics, I suppose, of employees, but also how you can help those individuals succeed. And of course, if they succeed, then your business is succeeding
[51:38] Al Elliott: So what's the future look like? What's it gonna look like in 5, 10 years' time?
[51:42] Louise Hill: We need to keep doing what we're doing. One goal we haven't achieved yet, we've been lobbying government for almost 2 years now to make financial education mandatory in every school in the UK, starting with primary school. So that work has to carry on. And we will continue listening to our customers and building out the services across the UK, across Europe, and hopefully remaining relevant and leading to kids growing up a lot smarter with money
[52:22] Al Elliott: You said sadly your parents are no longer around. What do you think they might say about you if they were looking, if they're talking to you right now and listening to this interview?
[52:30] Louise Hill: Gosh, I don't know. I don't know. I know when we were sorting out some things, my mum died a couple of years ago, and when we were sorting out some things, I found an envelope, and in that envelope, was, I think, every single business card I'd ever had since I first started work. I don't think— I don't have business cards anymore, but it's all gone digital. But they'd kept those, bless them. I hope they'd be proud. I'll make you laugh. The thing that made my mother the most proud, I can remember telling her that we'd had an article in the FT and she kind of said, well, that's lovely, dear. And then there'd been something in the Times and, oh, that's lovely, dear. And then we won an award. That's lovely, dear. And then there was an article in Good Housekeeping and she was beside herself. She went and ordered about 20 copies and sent them to all her friends. So obviously that was the pinnacle of achievement
[53:31] Leanne Elliott: What a woman, what an entrepreneur, what a story, and also what a noble cause. We had Ruth Hancock, who's the CEO of Octopus Money, on the podcast last year, and she was also a huge supporter of better financial literacy and wellbeing. Same with the legend that is Professor Kerry Cooper. In fact, if you want to learn more about financial wellbeing, then make sure you subscribe so you don't miss episode 160 in early January where we interview Professor Sir Kerry Cooper on all aspects of financial wellbeing
[54:04] Al Elliott: And if you want to find out more about Louise and her companies, and if you're in the UK, then go to gohenry.com. If you're in Spain, Italy, or France, search for Pixpay. That's PIXPAY. And if you're in the US, go to acorns.com. That's the investment business that Louise merged GoHenry with last year. Oh, and if you're on LinkedIn, go and find Louise and tell her how much you enjoyed listening to her story
[54:26] Leanne Elliott: Over the next couple of weeks, it is of course Christmas and New Year for those who celebrate it, so we're going to do things a little bit differently because we are some of those people that celebrate it. Nobody wants to talk about work if they're off work, do they? So we're going to be doing something a little bit different. We are publishing never-heard-before interviews on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve. One of our most popular interviews was with the amazing Rory Sutherland, the chair of Ogilvy Mather and also author of Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense. Al actually interviewed Rory for 2 hours in total, and I think we've used about 40 minutes of it so far, so we are going to bring you the full unedited interview on Christmas Eve. Merry freaking Christmas! And the following Thursday, we bring you part 1 of our now famous annual predictions episode. This is the 3rd one we've done where the top names in the industry give their predictions for 2025
[55:26] Al Elliott: And a week later, on New Year's Eve, we bring you the full unedited interview with the king of workplace culture, the guy who puts the OG in organizational psychology, the ex-NBA player, the king of the Star Wars nerd club, the peanut Potter aficionado, the one and only Professor John Amici OBE
[55:45] Leanne Elliott: New Year's Day, it'll be part 2 of the predictions episode. I think it's actually the 2nd of January, but maybe you'll sleep through New Year's Day and that essentially will be your New Year's Day. We will be joined by even more workplace experts to share their predictions for workplace culture in 2025
[56:02] Al Elliott: So even though we'll be having a break and we're heading back to the UK— remember, we live abroad, so we're going to the UK to see family over the Christmas period. We're probably going to be eating pigs in blankets and drinking fruity red wine. Fun fact, my dad is a wine journalist, so there's always wine in his house. But we will still be there in your podcast app waiting for you to join us if you want to, of course
[56:20] Leanne Elliott: I'm not saying that the fact that your dad is a wine journalist and has lots of free wine come his, his way is the reason I married you, but it certainly was a contributing factor. So until next time, make sure you have subscribed to the show on whatever platform you get your podcasts. I'm an Apple girl personally. I'll prefer Spotify. And if you really want to support us, it would be lovely if you could post on LinkedIn that you were listening, enjoying the show. Something like, um, I'm really enjoying Truth, Lies and Work podcast right now. Tag us in, we'll send you something lovely. Oh, and also check the show notes for my email address. It really is there, in there. People don't often believe me, but it is. Feel free to send me questions
[56:56] Al Elliott: I do personally answer every single And if you're completely checking out of podcasts and work and everything over the Christmas holiday, then yeah, good for you. Good for you. Have a fabulous break and we will see you in the new year. Bye-bye
[57:09] Louise Hill: Bye