# The future of work is distributed

- **Episode:** [167](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/167.md) (2025-01-30)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** future of work, distributed teams, remote work
- **Time:** 0:33–7:55 (start 33s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/167?t=33](https://truthliesandwork.com/167?t=33)

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[0:33] midroll (Phil Agnew, Nudge): Nice
[0:37] Leanne Elliott: Hello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning psychology podcast Brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered psychologist
[0:58] Al Elliott: My name is Al. I'm a business owner
[1:00] Leanne Elliott: And we are here to help you simplify the science of work and create amazing workplace cultures
[1:04] Al Elliott: Welcome, welcome to our Thursday episode. It's interview episode today. Tuesdays are a bit different. We'll tell you about that in a second. Um, don't worry, January's almost over. I think when this comes out, you'll have about 27 hours left of January. Has been the longest month possible, but yes, so it's almost finished. If you've listened to Tuesday's episode, which you should have done because I'll be checking, then you'll know that we are slowly working our way back home across Europe from the UK. Set off about the 2nd of January, we aim to arrive on the 1st of February just to basically ignore January, kick it in the face. So we're currently filming from a farmhouse in northeast Italy. Some people have commented saying that the background is fake. It's not, it really is this good, but you'll probably see our dogs moving around around in a second. But anyway, Lee, what else do we need to know?
[1:52] Leanne Elliott: Well, let's take it back to the podcast. I think this week we are bringing you an incredible guest, and regular listeners will know that on Tuesdays we bring you our This Week in Work, where we bring you the latest news stories from the world of work. There's not that much going on right now, is there? I don't know, somebody cancelled DEI, did I hear? Um, we might talk about that next week. We also bring a hot take from an industry expert, an unpopular opinion, something that is broken in the world of work, and finally, our world-famous weekly workplace surgery that neither Al and I can say properly first time, but nevertheless we will continue. Um, so that's on Tuesdays, but today we are joined by a very special expert
[2:31] Al Elliott: Yes, today's guest is Tony Jamous. Um, he is the founder and CEO of OysterHR. Now, if you ever tried to hire someone from another country, you can know the paperwork can be a nightmare. You know that everything could be a nightmare trying to work out local employment laws, benefits, make it all or fair for everyone? Well, that's what Tony is here for. That's what OysterHR fixes. Oyster helps companies hire talent from anywhere in the world without having to set up local entities or having to understand even what the local HR laws are
[3:02] Leanne Elliott: And this isn't just for big corporations. Oyster works with any company that employs knowledge workers, developers, marketers, salespeople, basically anyone who can do their job with a laptop and an internet connection. In this episode, you're going to learn 3 crucial things about employing workers across multiple countries. First, how to build trust in remote teams without ever meeting face to face. Tony's got some really interesting insights about assuming best intent and why that mindset shift is so important
[3:34] Al Elliott: Secondly, how do you handle compensation fairly across countries? There's this ongoing debate about whether you should potentially be paying people the same whether they live in the Philippines or the US. Tony's take on this might surprise you
[3:47] Leanne Elliott: And finally, what I found particularly interesting, how to create genuine psychological safety in distributed teams. Tony shares some really practical strategies that they use at Oyster, where they have over 550 employees across 70 countries
[4:03] Al Elliott: And just a quick note, Tony's not talking theory here. He's previously built and sold a company to Ericsson, and Oyster is now valued at over a billion dollars. No, that's not million, that's billion with So he knows exactly what he's talking about. So let's go and meet Tony Jamous and hear his story. I don't want to introduce you because you're such a fascinating guy. I'm going to ask you to introduce yourself. So can you tell me, Tony, who are you, what do you do, and what might you be famous for?
[4:30] Tony Jamous: Uh, well, I am, um, currently working as a CEO of Oyster. I'm the founder of Oyster. Oyster is a software company on a mission to reverse brain drain. Reduce wealth inequality. I was born in Lebanon. I moved to France when I was in my teen years to study computer science. And then I became an entrepreneur the first time 14 years ago now when I started this software company in the API space enabling developers to build communication software. I started that business when I was in the Bay Area in San Francisco. And then that business grew rapidly, went public, was acquired by Ericsson. And then that enabled me to leave that and take some time off and focus on my health, my wellbeing, but also what I'm going to do next. And for me, it was important that I align what I do with what I believe in. I wanted to work on something meaningful, impactful
[5:41] Al Elliott: Yeah
[5:42] Tony Jamous: aligned why I'm here in this world. And that led me to Oyster to create software to reduce the barriers for companies to employ people anywhere on the planet without the need of setting up entities, hiring lawyers, accountants. Essentially, if a business found, let's say, Mary in Africa, developer, they want to hire her and they are based in the UK or in the US or wherever. Then, and they can do that with a few clicks on our platform and give her a great salary, good experience, great benefits. So by making global hiring as easy as local hiring, I realized that we can drop inequality, let people stay in their home communities. I mean, the number one reason why emerging economies remain emerging is the fact that their best people have to leave to work in other countries
[6:36] Al Elliott: I think I've heard you say the future of work is distributed, and I don't think I understand what that means
[6:43] Tony Jamous: It means that the organizations of tomorrow are going to be hyper-diverse and distributed organizations because now great talent can be found anywhere in the world. We have communication technologies And ways of collaboration around knowledge work that is very suited for remote work. There are over a billion knowledge workers coming into the workforce in the next 10 years, mostly from emerging economies. At the same time, we have a talent shortage in the West. We have a million knowledge worker jobs going unfulfilled in the West, leading to 8.5 trillion economical loss according to Korn Ferry, which is like 3 times, like around 10% of the world economy to give you an idea, or 3 times the economy of France is missing. There's not enough knowledge workers in the West while there is 1 billion coming into the workforce in emerging economies. So there's an imbalance