# Managing upwards

- **Episode:** [177](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/177.md) (2025-03-06)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** managing-upwards, boss, management
- **Time:** 13:22–15:57 (start 802s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/177?t=802](https://truthliesandwork.com/177?t=802)

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[13:22] Al Elliott: What about managing upwards? So what about you? So you've now got a boss
[13:26] Vince Sanderson: Yes
[13:26] Al Elliott: You've had a boss before, you're now a manager, but you've got a manager above you. What sort of tips do you have for, is it called managing upwards? Is that the right word?
[13:34] Vince Sanderson: Yes, I think that's what most people will, certainly what I refer to it. So managing upwards. I'm gonna share something that I recognize might ruffle a few feathers. But I think it's quite an important thing to try and understand, regardless of whether you're a manager or a team member, whatever position you are underneath the CEO, you were hired to solve a problem for that person, not be a problem. And so many people misunderstand the manager-team member relationship or manager-senior manager, whoever your That whoever you report into, you're there primarily to help them achieve the goals that they have, and they are there to help the person that they report into achieve the goals that they have. And if you don't understand what they're trying to achieve, it's unlikely that you will be clear and focused on making that happen. And if you're not clear and focused, then it's probably not going to trickle down to the The direct reports that you have. So if you want to be able to manage up and have a really effective relationship, professional relationship where you're getting the most out of each other, then understanding it's a symbiotic relationship. I need to provide value to you. And then in return, you're going to provide value to me. And for me to do that, I've really got to understand your goals, your style of working, your strengths, where I might provide extra value. in areas that you're trying to develop. And so you're going to have to sit and talk about these things. The difficulty is if you do have a manager that you're trying to manage up and they have no interest in this. And that's really tough. And there's no quick way around that other than you might want to speak to some of their lateral peers. How can I help them? I feel like I'm hitting a bit of a brick wall with them. One of the tough things is always trying to remain optimistic and positive about these things, even when you're hitting a brick wall. It might be frustrating with your manager, but other people watch. How is Vince handling this? He's trying to connect with Al, and Al's not being receptive. I can see that, but Vince is still working at it. He's still providing value. He's coming and talking to us about it. People notice that, and it's memorable, and it puts you in a very good place for any further work that you may do