# Prediction 12: Wearables and workplace wellbeing

- **Episode:** [19](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/19.md) (2023-01-04)
- **Type:** other
- **Tags:** wearables, wellbeing, technology
- **Time:** 32:00–38:19 (start 1920s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/19?t=1920](https://truthliesandwork.com/19?t=1920)

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[32:00] Al Elliott: Keep that in. Brilliant. Okay, so my final— well, my final one, which is the penultimate one, is And number 12 is a prediction around wearables. Now, this is a bit of a difficult one, and I don't have all the answers around this. When I say a wearable, I mean something like an Apple Watch, a Samsung Watch, something that monitors your body in some way. Now, it just seems that if there's a way in which we can monitor our employees' stress levels or, or vital signs through wearables, there must be a way in which we can, we can ensure that we kind of We can step in when some— when something's going wrong. Now, the reason why I'm stammering a bit on this, because I don't have— this is not a fully formed thought. There's lots of privacy issues to do to go around here. But I want to talk a little bit for a second about Vitality, which is an insurance company. I think they're South African. And we spoke to someone from Vitality, and this interview is coming up in the next couple of episodes. And what's really interesting about their, their insurance model is that most insurance companies, they have a big department and they pay them a lot of money to defend the claims. So their entire job is to try not to pay out on a claim, and they'll do everything they can to avoid it. Whereas what Vitality are doing, instead of going defense, they're going preventative. So what they're trying to do is prevent the claims in the first place by giving people the tools to be healthier, to be happier, to avoid the claim through— or the— I mean, avoid getting ill in the first place, I suppose, is what it really boils down to. So this is not a fully formed thought. I don't know. There are people out there far cleverer than I who are going to be able to work this one out. But surely if we are able to monitor someone's blood pressure, someone's movement, where they are, etc., etc., then as long as we don't use that for any kind of nefarious, like, purpose to track them, as long as we use it in a way which is actually genuinely there to help them, I can't help but think there's something around that. Now, what's your thoughts about this in terms of, um, in, in terms of like the validity of this or even just these intrusion ideas?
[34:06] Leanne Elliott: It is, it is a complicated one from a, as you say, privacy, ethics, moral issues there. Um, but assuming all of those things are considered and worked out, data collection, you know, I'll always go on about this. Data means insights. Insights mean impactful interventions that are actually going to make a difference. So yes, in principle, I agree, this could be a really interesting route for organisations to go down. 2, I think again, it's about intent. What is the intent behind gathering that, that data? Transparency around how that data is used, to go back to one of your earlier points, Al, Mm-hmm. is going to be really important. Um, and I think a good example of that that we've seen recently is maybe the use of Toggl or other kind of time tracking apps
[34:57] Al Elliott: Mm-hmm
[34:57] Leanne Elliott: Are they being used to keep tabs on people to make sure they're working when they're not in the office, or are they being used to make sure that people aren't overly working when they're not in the office, when you haven't got eyes on them? Or, you know, to understand the relationship between time spent on a client and money made, you know, starting to, to prioritises clients that are more commercially impactful, I think can be really useful for. So it's around the intent, it's around the transparency. And I think the third thing that's really important about what you said there is about prevention rather than treatment of the issue. And I think this is kind of the, the swing we're going to see in wellbeing as well. Things like mindfulness at lunch, stress management, counselling, they're all reactive interventions to a high-stress environment. Prevention is creating, creating an environment that nurtures wellness and well-being. So again, I think if wearables are used in a way of prevention, um, and specifically in terms of helping your employees, um, create positive working behaviors and habits, then that's really good. And I think that there is potentially a dark side to this in terms of privacy, in of ethics, in terms of potentially managing people out whose behaviours aren't changing rather than supporting them to change, which would require, you know, a lot more investment if you do find that to be the case in your business. So I think it's, it's a complicated area, but I think it's one that is used with the right intention, um, could, could actually work really well
[36:30] Al Elliott: Yeah, I think, as I said, this is, this is in no way suggesting that you go and get— make people wear watches, because I mean There's, there's all kinds of ways around this. Like, we, we have a couple of friends, um, who, they're all, they're always funny because they're very competitive. They, um, you know, from Spain, um, very competitive. And, um, they had this competition who could do 10,000 steps. Um, and so, so, um, the idea was they'd win something or between the two of them, the competition. So the wife, um, thought it was very funny just to take her, uh, at the time it was a Fitbit, I think, take her Fitbit, attach it to the dog's collar and let him run off for an hour. So she got her 10,000 steps there. And then the next day they were going out, I think, for, to a party or something. And so, and so he's like, well, I'm gonna go. I'm, I'm not gonna lose to that. So he went and found a girl who was dancing and get and put the watch on her and then sat at the bar and had a few beers while she danced away for 40 minutes and got him his 10,000 steps. So I think there's, there's just, you know, there's ways you can manipulate it. I don't know, have the answers. I do think that we are sitting on a potential way to monitor in a good way. monitor vitals. I just don't know quite how that's gonna work
[37:36] Leanne Elliott: Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. I'm with you. I think there's definitely, there's definitely merit in this idea. And I think we'll, you know, we'll talk probably a bit more about it when we do. Um, we have some upcoming episodes on, on wellness and, and burnout, so I'm sure we'll touch on it again then. Um, but I think that's the interesting thing, isn't it? With all these different, all the different technology available right now, how can we use it for good? What measures do we need to put in place to make sure it isn't used for bad? Um, and I think also, you know, how does it feed into a wider strategy? Um, because otherwise wearables will just become mindfulness at lunch
[38:11] Al Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I think you have got the final one, which is number 13. What's your prediction, number 13, Leanne Elliott?