# The Gordon Gekko era and redefining power

- **Episode:** [197](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/197.md) (2025-05-15)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** gordon-gekko, power, leadership, culture
- **Time:** 30:20–37:13 (start 1820s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/197?t=1820](https://truthliesandwork.com/197?t=1820)

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[30:20] Al Elliott: So you just mentioned there Gordon Gekko, which obviously is a fictional character, but we also have seen Jordan Belfort in Wolf of Wall Street, and we've had a glimpse into what that world is like. Do you think that in that sort of environment of investment banking, you could ever have a leader who was embracing feminine intelligence?
[30:40] Elina Teboul: It's really difficult. And actually, there's a funny nuance about this whole Gordon Gekko character that I'll say, and then I'll answer your question. But I think it's kind of interesting that when that movie was made, we all think that he was just actually protecting his own interests. But at the time, it was the directors of the company who were actually channeling all the profits to themselves
[31:09] Al Elliott: Hmm
[31:10] Elina Teboul: And so it was the era of the CEOs and the management that were actually acting in a way that was all for their own interests. And in that, when Gordon Gekko makes that famous speech about greed is good and all of that stuff, it's actually, yes, it's to protect shareholder interests, but it was to protect them against management mishandling. the company. And so, my first career was in corporate law. And so, actually, I think this is really interesting where a lot of the laws come around protecting shareholder interest. It comes from originally when the management of the company were basically just stealing the assets of organizations. So, there was a reason why we needed to protect shareholder interests. from that management mishandling, but then it went really wrong. And on the question of, can certain corporate cultures really be conscious? And I think it's tricky. I'll share one example. So when I first started in psychology, I was coaching a lot of lawyers because that was my initial profession. So I worked in big law in New York, which is a very similar culture, like an investment bank, for example. And I ended up teaching a course in Fordham Law School in New York, which was called Positive Lawyering, that I convinced Fordham Law that they should have. And Positive Lawyering was about bringing positive psychology principles to legal practice. And I tried to give certain tools to the law students to prepare them for when they go into legal practice around self-management and mindfulness and purpose and about how they can look at their career as a calling and just really give them the tools that they could, I think, thrive in that kind of environment. And although I do think I was able to arm them with a toolkit that was very helpful, there was always that part of me that felt slightly concerned that, okay, I'm giving them these tools, but they're still stepping into the lion's den. They're still stepping into this culture where no matter how self-aware and emotionally intelligent and articulate, and they know how to set their boundaries and they know how to do their breathwork, but how are they going to be, especially junior people in these kinds of organizations? And what I come away with today and my perspective on this today is that it's up to senior leadership
[33:54] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[33:55] Elina Teboul: I think it's very, very difficult to be a junior person without the autonomy, without the influence to come into an organization and be able to change that culture. So if you're stepping into it, then the most you could do is have tools around self-mastery in order to protect yourself. But imagine again, the sort of feminine is the relational and it's about the collective. So why couldn't all the partners of a law firm or of an investment bank or any organization come together and decide, let's lead in a different way. Let us create an organization that works differently, that we want to work in, that is a representation of our values and who we want to be in the world. And that will trickle down to the next generation and what they bring in. So I do think And why I wrote a book that's really geared to leaders is what their decisions are and what their behaviors are impacts the entire organization. And then I would say even moreover, again, because the feminine is so relational and collective and looks at the bigger picture, I do think there's an opportunity for organizations to come together. So, it's very difficult to say we are going to Act in, you know, we don't wanna compete on the inputs of our, you know, glass that come from China that are poorly made, that are made in a way that's really bad for the environment. We don't want to, you know, make the cheapest version of this, but then we can't compete, right? So, a lot of times organizations say, I'd like to have a really conscious culture, but then all the customers will go somewhere else. And there are examples of FMCG companies coming together that was led by Unilever and Paul Polman, who's one of the most, I think, conscious examples of conscious leaders where FMCG companies came together and said that there are certain standards that we're not going to compete on. And if Unilever did that on their own, then maybe they wouldn't be competitive anymore. But they took that relational approach and they said, no, let's make a pact. Let's bring the other organizations into the conversation because We have a collective responsibility. So for all of these, when we think about something is impossible in an organization or in the world, I always kind of remind people that all of these organizations and the idea of business and capitalism, this is an invention of the human imagination. It's not real. It's not the rules of physics. Capitalism doesn't exist in the world. We made it up. Like money is a figment of our imagination, right? Like all the way that we work in all of these organizations, we came up with it. So how could it be impossible to come up with a different way? And so if we're lacking creativity and courage, then we should tap into how do we do that? How do we ignite creativity and courage? But it's always possible because the world that we imagined Is, and we created because we imagined, then we can certainly create a new world