# Mid-roll / power and the 'brilliant jerk' myth

- **Episode:** [207](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/207.md) (2025-06-19)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** power, brilliant-jerk, leadership
- **Time:** 23:55–27:07 (start 1435s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/207?t=1435](https://truthliesandwork.com/207?t=1435)

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[23:55] Al Elliott: So now we understand what kindness can look like. After the break, we'll ask what happens when it gets misunderstood or gets in the way of power. Billion Dollar Moves hosted by Sarah Chen Spellings is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals
[24:10] Leanne Elliott: Join venture capitalist and strategist Sarah Chen Sarah Chen Spellings as she asks the hard questions and learns through the triumphs, failures, and hard lessons of the crème de la crème so you too can make billion-dollar moves in venture, in business, and in life
[24:23] Al Elliott: Maybe start with episode 124 where you're going to hear how industry giants from Canva to YouTube define leadership
[24:30] Leanne Elliott: Listen to Billion Dollar Moves wherever you get your podcasts
[24:33] Al Elliott: Now let's talk about power for a Because whether it's Elon Musk or Gordon Ramsay, society seems to admire a very strong leader. So can kindness really coexist with power? I don't think any conversation about leadership and kindness would be complete without mentioning— now, I don't know whether to be political here or not, but your president, the— without talking politically, but some of the things that we see in the UK that reported about him make him sound like he's not a particularly kind person. Now, regardless of whether that's the case or not, that's the perception. Now, well, let's go a little more politically agnostic and let's talk about Steve Jobs. Extraordinary visionary, amazing, amazing company. By all accounts, he was an asshole. So, but these people are the people people remember, like, oh, you are the next Steve Jobs. Who wants to be like that? But people do. So what am I missing about this? Why?
[25:35] Jeff LeBlanc: Yeah
[25:36] Al Elliott: Are we lauding these people who possibly were unkind in real life?
[25:40] Jeff LeBlanc: Well, I think that usually, I think history, you know, a lot of the times remembers people like a Steve Jobs for what they accomplished, right? And I do believe that I'm not of the mind that someone can't be an incredibly, you know, like a Steve Jobs, incredibly brilliant and incredibly visionary and also not be a, you know, very problematic, difficult person. I think that that can happen. And, you know, again, I would say that for me, you know, I'm not in a position— well, it wouldn't happen now anyways, but I'm not in a position to give advice to a Steve Jobs. You know, I mean, obviously he's doing what he's doing and that's, you know, his goal and that was his goal and he made it work. But for me, the everyday sort of individuals that I'm talking to, they're not necessarily leading in the same way and doing things the same way. And I don't think that they necessarily— who I would like to speak to is the people that were working for Steve Jobs at the time. How were they viewing him? Were they letting him get away with it because he wasn't? And I don't know. I only know so much about his story. I would like to speak to them. You know, how were they feeling? Were they okay with it because they felt that they were on, they bought in because, you know, he was doing something so, you know, visionary. Um, that very well could be the case