# The difference between being nice and being kind

- **Episode:** [207](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/207.md) (2025-06-19)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** nice-vs-kind, kindness, communication
- **Time:** 6:25–13:57 (start 385s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/207?t=385](https://truthliesandwork.com/207?t=385)

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[6:25] Al Elliott: Can you give me an example of what the difference is between nice and kind?
[6:31] Jeff LeBlanc: I can. And, you know, I have a story that I usually tell, and I, and I don't— I try not to curse, at least publicly. But I will say that I think if we can, if we can go there, I, you know, I call it really the nicest asshole I ever met. theory. And essentially what that, in my opinion, is, is I break it down in this way, and I talk a little bit about it in other writings and what have you. But essentially, there, there is, you know, a situation where you have a, let's call, let's say a him at this point. I can specifically recall this person, no names, of course. But this, this person who was everything that you would expect in terms of what the average person, I think, would call nice. You know, very friendly, very cordial. Um, it's definitely someone who people wanted to be around. You know, um, had his favorites without doubt, and those favorites were people who sort of had the inside track, right? Which I think was certainly not a—
[7:42] Al Elliott: Uh-huh
[7:42] Jeff LeBlanc: a fair way of doing things. And to me was quintessential nice. Sure, nice. And, you know, I mean, really not hurting anyone. But to me, that's— I then move on to, okay, well, what is kind? And so for me, kind, I've had and worked with people that were not particularly friendly, I guess you might say. Like, really, some of them were a little bit cold and a little bit harsh even in the way that they handled things. However, I found that those people, unlike the nicest asshole, they were people that were— and I can think of one person in particular. He was very stern, but you always knew exactly where you stood with him. He was very clear in terms of how you could get ahead. He was very fair in terms of how he treated everyone. And actually, he, he, I would take it, I would say he was kind because he often would remember things. He would remember if you had, I remember my grandmother was ill at the time, for example, and he would often check in and ask about that, where the nicest asshole would never do that, would never check in because he didn't remember those things, right? It was all superficial. There was nothing that was sticking. It was all just sort of smiles and balloons and poodles. I have no idea, whatever signifies happiness. But realistically, we needed something more. And this guy did that. But on the surface, he was someone who Most people would write off as, I hate to say it, but they'd probably think he was the a-hole, right? But he was anything but. And, but I think it takes empathy to be able to distinguish between the two and to be able to say, okay, this guy actually cares more and is probably doing a better job leading, but it's not as flashy and it's not as I guess you could say surface level, right? It doesn't jump out at you. So that's the difference in my opinion. Then, and, you know, and, and of course, like I said, leaving some things out. So, you know, not to identify anyone, but hopefully, you know, the line of sort of what I see between the two. And you can be both. Believe me, I've known plenty of people who are incredibly, and I'm sure you have as well, incredibly kind and also incredibly good at what they do. Very structured, very fair. All those things, and that's hitting the jackpot, right? But I think just drawing a line between the two helps people sort of think a little bit more about it and maybe analyze it a little bit more. And I don't know if one's— I mean, I think one's better than the other, but I suppose someone who's nice in the workplace and not exactly leading with structure or fairness or whatever that may be
[10:48] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[10:48] Jeff LeBlanc: It's better than being rude and insulting
[10:51] Al Elliott: When you were describing that kind person who was a little bit stern, it reminded me very much of my grandparents who were born, I think, probably just before the 1900s, maybe just after. Um, and they were, you just did not cross them, but they always looked after you and they always made sure that you had, we used to have fish and chips on a, on a Friday night
[11:12] Jeff LeBlanc: Well, I think that's one version. Right. I think that I love that example of the older, and I think that sometimes this is a whole nother topic, that sometimes it is older generations that are more set in that model, so to speak, however you want to look at it. And they are a little bit sterner. But I think that I don't want To send the message that my thought process is that everybody is like that. I mean, there are plenty of ins— that, that's what I would call an extreme version. You know, there are plenty of people who are also very cordial and very, very open and happen to meet all those criteria that I would consider, you know, in this model, so to speak, right? In the engaged empathy, you know, model that would fit that. But I guess— What for me, you know, the difference is, is really trying to, and I would, I would, you know, mention this to students and I even do this myself, you know, really trying to give the person a shot. I think that's where the whole empathy idea really, you know, started with me. You know, it's that, you know, sort of starting to connect with, I can remember as far back as, you know, I'm from the Boston and New England area, so. We have our own fair share of characters. We'll leave it at that. And I can remember, you know, as a child, you know, certainly coming about people who were, they, it's very hard to sort of put into words, similar to your grandparents, I would say, you know, they were the type that would, you know, If you were, if you needed their help, they might help you, right? And they'd be there for you, but they might insult you while they're doing it, right? Because you screwed up or you made a mistake or whatever it might be. So I guess that sort of made me more open to the idea of going a step further and accepting that, you know, taking a look at what it really means to be kind. And to me, there's a, there is just that distinct difference. And you just, you know, when you know, and, and the more I think where empathy comes in is the more that you put yourself in their shoes and think about it from their perspective, you start to realize that, you know, maybe this person is just built differently, you know, and they're not the Mr. Rogers type, but they, that doesn't mean they're not friendly, you know, I mean, you can be a friendly beast, right? And a kind beast