# Introduction to the BATNA method with Richard Birke

- **Episode:** [211](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/211.md) (2025-07-03)
- **Type:** intro
- **Tags:** batna, negotiation, career
- **Time:** 0:00–3:18 (start 0s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/211?t=0](https://truthliesandwork.com/211?t=0)

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[0:00] Al Elliott: What if I told you that the reason you're not getting what you want at work has nothing to do with your performance, your qualifications, or even how much your boss likes you?
[0:07] Leanne Elliott: Research by Francesca Gino and Deepak Malhotra from Harvard Business School shows that having strong alternatives changes how you negotiate. You become more confident and willing to take risks. But here's the thing, most of us negotiate from the worst possible position, desperation
[0:24] Richard Birke: Well, if I have another job offer, if I have somebody in the background who said, Rich, the moment you leave your current industry, I'll give you $1 million a day to work for me. I'm gonna negotiate a lot harder with you because I can afford to walk away. Now, if I have nothing and I lose what I have, I might lose my apartment, I might lose everything. My walkaway alternative is terrible, and so I'm not gonna have a lot of power negotiating with you
[0:53] Al Elliott: That was Richard Birke, who's a mediator, negotiation expert, and one of the most experienced dealmakers in the world. He's a Harvard Law graduate who went on to lead research at Stanford, taught business decision-making for 25 years, and now handles billion-dollar disputes, including cases like Enron and Trump University. But today he's here to talk to you about something much more personal, your career. What if the key to getting what you want at work isn't how you ask, but how easy it is to walk away?
[1:21] Leanne Elliott: You are listening to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioral science meets workplace culture. We are brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, Work, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a Chartered Occupational Psychologist
[1:36] Al Elliott: My name is Al. I'm a business owner
[1:38] Leanne Elliott: And we are here to help you simplify the science of work
[1:41] Al Elliott: And as you would have heard already, we're joined by Richard Birke, who spent 40 years mastering the art of negotiation. He's a Harvard Law graduate who became Associate Director of Stanford Center on International Conflict Negotiation, then spent 25 years as a law professor teaching decision-making. Now at JAMS, he handles billion-dollar disputes such as Enron, Trump University, and massive corporate settlements
[2:03] Leanne Elliott: And what he's discovered will genuinely surprise you. You know how we always think negotiation is about being persuasive or charming or even having the right arguments?
[2:12] Al Elliott: Well, it turns out that's completely backwards. The most powerful negotiators don't win because they're great talkers. They win because they have something called a BATNA
[2:19] Leanne Elliott: BATNA stands for Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement, and the psychology behind it is really interesting. When you have a strong alternative your brain literally operates differently. You're more creative, more confident, and paradoxically more generous in negotiations
[2:37] Al Elliott: So today we're going to show you how to create your own BATNA so you can negotiate like a pro. We're also going to look at why most people negotiate badly
[2:45] Leanne Elliott: We're also going to give you a step-by-step system for getting anything you want at work, not through manipulation or aggression, but through preparation and strategic thinking
[2:55] Al Elliott: So are you ready to discover the secret that world-class negotiators have been using all along? Let's find out after this very short message from our lovely sponsors