# Handling the skeptics and ego-driven leaders - **Episode:** [215](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/215.md) (2025-07-17) - **Type:** interview - **Tags:** skeptics, ego, leadership - **Time:** 14:14–21:14 (start 854s) - **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/215?t=854](https://truthliesandwork.com/215?t=854) --- [14:14] Leanne Elliott: We see a lot online, on the media about very different styles of leadership, very coercive styles of leadership, very masculine styles of leadership to, you know, pull up on Meta and Mark Zuckerberg's call for more masculine energy. Do you ever get any pushback from people that maybe this is all a bit too soft or weak or? [14:34] Tim Lupinacci: Probably more early on when I first started in the role, because I haven't, like, I mean, that's just been who I am. And of course, to some extent, the board selected me as the next CEO knowing that that was kind of how I am. But I did have people saying, and like I said, we had really plateaued in several instances, but for many people, we plateaued financially. And so they were like, had their eyes on us. Are we going to be able to turn this ship around or turn it to the right direction? And so when I was as you said, some of the soft skills or things that say, well, that's not important. How are we going to drive more revenue and drive more profit? I did have to explain why I thought this was important and why emotional intelligence was important in not just in the leader of the firm, but leading teams, engaging the teams, and in better serving clients. I think relationships internally are important, but relationships externally with our customers and clients are equally important. And those are, they may be soft skills, but they're skills that help differentiate you in serving as a trusted advisor to your clients. Um, so definitely got some pushback. I listened to it. I explained why my philosophy was, and that, you know, if they didn't want to participate in some of the, you know, uh, training that we did or some of the opportunities where we had, you know, town halls about the mental health and wellness, they, that was their choice not to participate. I think over time that they've seen how it really does work hand in glove in Um, you know, helping the firm thrive and have better financial performance, I think people sort of have a little bit more buy-in, but there's still some folks that could care less and they just think that's just Tim talking about whatever, but they go on their way. I mean, and they're, and they're still, I mean, they're, they're productive person in the firm. They're not demeaning anything. They're not, uh, you know, trying to, um, stop what we're doing, but that's fine. They can decide to, you know, take advantage of opportunities or not. But, um, but yeah, you're exactly right. A lot of people, that's just a different mindset [16:21] Leanne Elliott: And I think with that different mindset, there are some leaders that are a little bit addicted to being the most powerful person in the room, the smartest person in the room. Equally, there's going to be times where you will be the smartest room— um, person in, in the room, Tim. You will be, um, a person that needs to, to give direction or offer that to people who are looking for direction. I mean, in those moments, how do you— How do you exert that power in a way that motivates people rather than than perhaps causes fear or, or the more negative consequences [16:58] Tim Lupinacci: I don't want it to come across like this is some nirvana and everything's perfect. And is everyone just rowing the same direction all the time? I mean, there are very difficult decisions that we have to make. Certainly in the pandemic we did. And anytime you have people involved, you know, and it may be individuals that will probably thrive in other organizations, and you have to make those hard decisions and go ahead and do that. I mean, you can do it with grace and compassion, and we really try to do that. But I think the biggest part of it for our colleagues is to know the why and to hear that it was really thought through what the decision was. We think we're making this decision in the best interest of the organization as a whole and ensuring our longer-term success. And while for some individuals or for some who don't think it's the right decision, try to understand why we're doing it. And again, to understand the thought process [17:50] Al Elliott: Yeah [17:51] Tim Lupinacci: I'm very much involved. I want to have our board engaged on those really tough decisions so that they can help, you know, explain it and unpack that for people. But that gets back again to, I don't think it can be this type of command and control and just do a decision. And if there's fallout, let it happen. I've got to listen. And I'm very open. And some decisions we've made, you know, I have even young attorneys or even some professional business services staff reach out and say, I really don't agree with this. Can I talk to you about it? And I listen to them and I try to explain more of what we're doing. And most often they say, well, I understand it. I don't necessarily agree with it. So you definitely, because I've got to lead this organization and it can't be what one of the 1,400 individuals best impact, how that helps them the best. It's got to be for the good of the organization. But just being accessible and talking through it, I think is also important. And there are hard decisions and people disagree with it and You know, in some instances they may decide to leave because they don't think this is the right place for them. And I gotta, you know, just, I know early on I would really fret over everyone who left and think it was an indictment of me. But over time I realized there's just people thrive in different situations, different circumstances. I love what we're doing here and it may not be for everybody. So, um, but it is, it's something that I think leaders have to be really intentional about talking about the why behind some of those hard decisions [19:11] Leanne Elliott: How do you handle a leader who maybe is A little bit more ego-driven than fits within the culture of the organization that you're building? [19:19] Tim Lupinacci: That's another great question. And it is, it's, it's, it's, it's, I think it's hard work. It takes time and intentionality. Um, I do, uh, love that, again, that Churchill model of breaking bread and sharing things around, like the diplomacy around the dinner table. Now, I'm not sitting there saying I'm smoking cigars and drinking brandy like he did in all hours of the night, although that was great, you know, for him. Um, so I really do try to, um, build those relationships, particularly with some of the individuals who may be the, um, that have the sharpest elbows, so to speak. And, uh, and then at times that may lead to they've taken some actions that are kind of against our values, against our culture. And it's me then following up, hopefully having built a relationship to say, hey, uh, this is not acceptable in what we're trying to do. We'd love to get you some coaching, some counseling to really help through this. Um, and in some instances they take that up and they, they learn from it and they get, you know, they figure out some of the reasons why maybe they lash out at people, um, and, and things like that. Um, some instances they do it or they just refuse to do it and we just have to, you know, again, with grace, try to counsel them out. And when, you know, you're kind of turning around the finances of an organization, uh, and one of your top producers is that type of person, Um, it, it's hard to make that decision, but it does, uh, you gotta stay true to your values. And so we've done that. And then ultimately it's net positive and others see that, you know, you don't just kowtow to the person with the biggest ego. Um, but it's a balance. It's definitely a balance and it's gotta be handled with tact and, and, um, with authenticity, I think [20:55] Al Elliott: Now, sometimes with ego-driven leaders, you just have to encourage them out of the business. And it's kind of reassuring to hear that it's not all cupcakes and rainbows [21:05] Leanne Elliott: Yeah. Talking of real life, a common fear I think for leaders is this: if I empower others, what if they make mistakes? What if they go off in the wrong direction?