# Meet Andrew Palmer, Bartleby columnist

- **Episode:** [217](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/217.md) (2025-07-24)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** journalism, economist, liz-truss
- **Time:** 0:51–2:51 (start 51s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/217?t=51](https://truthliesandwork.com/217?t=51)

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[0:51] Al Elliott: Oh, and by the way, fun fact, Andrew's also the guy who came up with the comparison between Liz Truss's time in office and and an iceberg lettuce. But more importantly, he's discovered that the best managers aren't the loudest voices in the room
[1:03] Leanne Elliott: Andrew has interviewed leaders from Netflix, LinkedIn, Shopify, Stripe, Google. You name a company and he has probably covered it. And he has some strong opinions of his own. He argues that middle managers, often seen as bureaucratic deadweight, are actually the most crucial people in any organisation. And he's found that some of our most celebrated genius jerks, like Steve Jobs and Elon Musk, might not be as bad as we once thought
[1:29] Al Elliott: And in a world where AI threatens to replace human managers with dashboards and algorithms, Andrew warns we're about to lose the most important thing leaders do— actually talking to their people
[1:40] Leanne Elliott: Hello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne and I'm a Chartered Occupational Psychologist
[1:57] Al Elliott: My name is Al, I'm a business owner
[1:58] Leanne Elliott: And we are here to help you simplify the science of work
[2:01] Al Elliott: And after this really short break, we'll discover why great management is like poetry and prose, why multiple interruptions a day creates the world's best culture, and Andrew's surprising defence of people others might call jerks
[2:13] Leanne Elliott: See you in a sec
[2:47] Al Elliott: Nice