# Hustle culture and the 'badge of honour' burnout

- **Episode:** [22](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/22.md) (2023-01-17)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** hustle-culture, burnout, work-culture
- **Time:** 17:08–18:25 (start 1028s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/22?t=1028](https://truthliesandwork.com/22?t=1028)

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[17:08] Jim Young: For sure. I even think that the I'm so busy, even I'm burned out is a badge of honor, which is part of— I actually think it's really a positive development. Because if people are willing, if men in particular, who I'm trying to reach, are willing to say, Hey, I'm wearing the burnout badge. Well, there's a dark side to that as well. And it opens up the conversation like, yeah, I'm burned out too. Maybe I actually don't want this and I can actually talk about it because it's okay to say I'm burned out. So I think there's been some normative behavior that's been positive that's grown out of hustle culture and it's still going on. There's still people who are, I've gotta achieve, I've gotta succeed, I gotta beat the next guy, I gotta keep climbing the ladder
[17:56] Al Elliott: Yeah, there's the story I read about, uh, one of the richest men. I think it might have been Sweden, um, and he was one of the richest men. He was the richest man in Sweden, and then, um, something happened. He lost half his wealth, um, became the 3rd richest man in Sweden, and then stepped in front of a train and killed himself. And it's just, you know, that ego. I think— I, I don't know, it feels to me that ego can be really, really detrimental
[18:21] Jim Young: Yeah. Yeah, can I put a different word on that?
[18:25] Al Elliott: Yeah
[18:25] Jim Young: I'd use shame because I, I think that's a really, really deep and strong undercurrent for men. And that example is a great one, right? I'm number one. Now I'm not number one. I'm a loser. I've failed. I'm weak. I'm less than. And it's shameful. I can't face Other people until I get back on top. And we see this all over the place. That example is horrifying. We saw that with the elections in the US. We had a president who couldn't admit that he lost. Why is it, is it so shameful? And you look at some of the language around that, whether it's with politicians or people in business, it's like, I have to be the winner. We have to crush the competition. And if we don't, what, what does that mean for us? What does that mean about our identity? Are we, are we soft? Are we weak? Are we, are we a failure? I think that causes a lot of that hustle culture