# High achievers and the goals trap

- **Episode:** [221](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/221.md) (2025-08-07)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** high-achievers, goals, discernment, perfectionism, success
- **Time:** 35:24–39:46 (start 2124s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/221?t=2124](https://truthliesandwork.com/221?t=2124)

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[35:24] Carolina Lasso: I think once again, we go back to discernment and discernment on why is it that I don't have a lot of goals? What's going on? Have I lost my North Star? Have I lost my motivation? Am I doing something that is too easy for me? I love the concept of flow, being in a state of flow. So based on the book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, And in the book, he talks about that channel of, which is the balance between skills and joy, right? And so when your skills are too developed for a project or for something you're doing, then you can get into boredom because it's too easy for you. But when you go into something that one, you don't like, and 2, is too difficult, too challenging, then you go into anxiety, overwhelm. And so I think what's important is to find this sweet spot on constantly doing things that are interesting, challenging, where you go into that state of flow. You're fully immersed into the activity. You lose track of time. You lose ego. One of my favorite aspects of of flow, and you are just one with the activity. That is healthy. That uses your skills. It drives engagement. It leads to joy and satisfaction and presence without the overattachment to the outcome. You are so immersed with the activity. It is as though you and the activity become one. You're not checking the clock to see what time it is. You even forget you're hungry oftentimes. You're just so embedded, immersed, involved in what you're doing. Your skills are put into use, right? Whatever it is that you're doing, your skills are used, engaged. Your mind is there, your heart is there, And you become one. There is that loss of ego, of identity. You're not worried about the outcome. You're just in so much presence and there's so much joy because of that
[37:49] Al Elliott: But this is the opposite to the young Colombian woman who was eating her lunch in the elevator, who wore like busyness, like the badge of honor
[37:59] Carolina Lasso: That was me. And unfortunately I was not the only one. We are so frequently wearing busyness as the badge of honor. Oftentimes they ask you, hi, how are you? And you say, busy. The answer is, I am busy. Notice that, right? I am. Your existence is busy. I am busy. And it's so concerning because we were not born to just be in the hustle or busy, busy, busy. Every single day. There is so much to life about being. I've had to learn the lesson the hard way. And now when I see that and I see so many people burning out with such high levels of stress, not having space and time to eat a proper meal, let alone to spend time with loved ones, to do the hobbies that make them joyful, that make them smile. Or just do nothing. In my book, I talk about, uh, when I was in Italy, I learned the concept of il dolce far niente, and it's so beautiful, that state, that sweet moment of doing nothing, nothingness, right? That ability to just be, wander around and wonder about life and how majestic it is to be able to be alive and to have this planet. But we don't stop enough to do all of that. I mean, we don't even stop to go on vacation properly, let alone those moments in our day-to-day. So it all starts with taking a pause, stopping, taking a moment to disconnect