# Making fun inclusive

- **Episode:** [225](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/225.md) (2025-08-21)
- **Type:** interview
- **Tags:** inclusion, fun, diversity
- **Time:** 17:23–20:52 (start 1043s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/225?t=1043](https://truthliesandwork.com/225?t=1043)

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[17:23] Al Elliott: Yeah
[17:25] Joel Zeff: But, you know, I think people are genuinely good. That's, I, that's just my philosophy on life is that people are genuinely good and overall good. And, you know, you hopefully made the right hires. And if somebody accidentally says something, it's just about educating that person. But I don't really think that should be our fear. When we talk about this fun, it's not about, we're just all, you know, jumping around and juggling balls and, you know, playing ping pong and like, maybe we'll work for 10 minutes. And that's what I think people, when, when they talk about fun at work, that's, I think that's their first, their mindset is we're playing ping pong and there's free massages, you know, and, you know, there's an espresso machine. Woo! You know, and that's not, all those things are fun. Nothing wrong with any of that. But what I'm focused on is being fulfilled. Making fun is about being fulfilled at work, creating opportunity for each other, uh, being positive and supportive, create, being appreciative. These are the tenets of improv. One of the tenets is asking the question, how do I help the people around me be successful? Because people ask, you know, how does improv work? You're on stage with other performers. There's no script. There's no rehearsal. Everything's happening right there for the first time. So how does it work? Well, it's not about me trying to be the funniest or me trying to be the star. What I'm trying to do is help everybody else. be successful, set them up, and in turn, they're going to help me and set me up. And that's a really important concept that we can take to any work situation. The challenge is asking the question, how do I help the people around me be successful? Answering that, because you know what people need to be successful, your customers, your partners, your vendors, your teammates, you know what they need. The hard part is to act on it. And when you do act on it, we create something really special. Fun is one thing we're creating when we're helping people be successful. I, that brings me a lot of joy when I refer somebody, when I recommend somebody, when I make a connection, that brings me great joy. Am I juggling? Am I playing ping pong? Am I drinking free espresso?
[20:01] Leanne Elliott: No
[20:03] Joel Zeff: But what I've done is I made a connection that brings me fun, that brings me joy. And so, you know, that's what I want people to think about. Are we creating opportunity? Are we being positive and supportive with each other? Are we helping each other be successful? And you don't have to take my word for it. Every time there's a list, great industries, great places to work, um, you know, great companies. They all say the same thing. They, they, they, they may use different words or different phrases, but they're saying the same thing. They're appreciated. They feel like, um, they have a freedom, they have opportunity, you know, they're using these words. And that is what we're doing is we're creating this ecosystem of fun. That's what fun means to me