# Exercise 4: WOOP — turning wishes into action

- **Episode:** [228](https://agents.truthliesandwork.com/episodes/228.md) (2025-09-02)
- **Type:** other
- **Tags:** woop, goal-setting, action-planning
- **Time:** 28:05–47:32 (start 1685s)
- **Listen:** [https://truthliesandwork.com/228?t=1685](https://truthliesandwork.com/228?t=1685)

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[28:05] Al Elliott: Okay
[28:05] Leanne Elliott: Do you see the process here? Do you see how we're building? We're compounding it, Al
[28:09] Al Elliott: I like it. I like it. I feel like I'm in a TED Talk
[28:12] Leanne Elliott: So making it happen. I think you're gonna like the name of this exercise, Al
[28:17] Al Elliott: Uh, is it cheese?
[28:18] Leanne Elliott: Nope. It's whoop
[28:20] Al Elliott: Say it again
[28:21] Leanne Elliott: WOOP
[28:21] Al Elliott: I like it
[28:22] Leanne Elliott: Yeah. So this is about making it practical with a method. It's a goal-setting method called WOOP, W-O-O-P, developed by another wonderful psychologist, Gabriele Oettingen, I think is how you say it. Oettingen, NYU, which is very cool. Do you know what? That's the place I think I wish I'd like, in an alternative life, I would've gone to NYU
[28:43] Al Elliott: Would you? What's that, New York?
[28:44] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[28:45] Al Elliott: Oh, you wouldn't last a month in New York
[28:48] Leanne Elliott: No, that version of Leanne couldn't though. That version of Leanne would've been like—
[28:51] Al Elliott: Not the country bumpkin from Wales
[28:53] Leanne Elliott: Exactly
[28:54] Al Elliott: Yeah
[28:54] Leanne Elliott: Anyway, so Gabriel's research basically shows us that visualising success isn't enough. It's a good start. So we visualised it and that's good. But if we didn't then change it into something more practical, it could actually decrease our motivation because our brain basically thinks that You've already achieved it
[29:12] Al Elliott: Well, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough
[29:13] Leanne Elliott: Yeah. I think therefore it's done
[29:15] Al Elliott: I love that. I love that
[29:19] Leanne Elliott: Yeah. So, I mean, this won't be a surprise to anybody who's, who's, yeah, is trained in coaching or has undertaken some coaching or basically read any book about goals. Yeah. Goals are really the thing that, that make it happen, having those specific plans and specifically with With this one as well, most really effective goal setting is identifying the obstacles as well. So that's what we're gonna do, Al. So WOOP stands for wish, outcome, obstacle, plan
[29:47] Al Elliott: Okay
[29:48] Leanne Elliott: Okay. So first we need the wish, that one important thing that you want to achieve this autumn. We know what that is, don't we?
[29:54] Al Elliott: Yeah. We wanna get, we wanna get this secret top secret project, RX-7, RX-7. We wanna get that into the world
[30:03] Leanne Elliott: Is it challenging but achievable?
[30:04] Al Elliott: Yeah
[30:05] Leanne Elliott: Okay, lovely. That's our wish then. Outcome
[30:08] Al Elliott: Is that it? So basically your wish has to be challenging but achievable
[30:11] Leanne Elliott: Challenging but achievable
[30:12] Al Elliott: So if I was like, right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna compete in the Tour de France next year, that is challenging but not achievable for me who have literally forgotten to ride, how to ride a bike
[30:22] Leanne Elliott: Yeah, yeah, maybe
[30:24] Al Elliott: But if I said I wanted to build a website for RX7, Then that's achievable, but not really challenging
[30:30] Leanne Elliott: Not for you. Not for you. Well, it depends on the person. It'd be very challenging for me. I wouldn't know where to start. But yes, exactly. Challenging, but achievable. So that's our wish. Next is outcome. So I want you to imagine the best result if you achieve this wish. What will be different?
[30:48] Al Elliott: Uh, what will be different? What do you mean by what will be different?
[30:50] Leanne Elliott: What will be different about your work life once it's achieved?
[30:54] Al Elliott: So this is the outcome, is it?
[30:56] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[30:56] Al Elliott: Yeah. Okay. What'll be different? What's going to be the biggest difference? Biggest outcome is probably that there will be something in the hands of other people that they didn't have before that's genuinely useful. So I'm just talking out loud here. Um, that's a lovely one. Yeah, that's probably, and then the personal outcome for me is that once we've sold 10 of these, then I know myself and I'm probably going to lose interest in it, but I'll have created all of the stuff required for someone else to step in and run that process of getting more clients for you to service. Um, and yeah, that's probably— talk me through, are those good answers to that?
[31:33] Leanne Elliott: Yeah, really good answers. Because again, you're, you're kind of— it's going back to that, the biggest thing about that wish was that you've brought something into existence that didn't exist previously. So even by extending that to thinking, I know I'm going to get bored because once it exists, I'm bored. But I am also gonna have, have built in all the wraparound that somebody else can pick that up and, and run with it. So yeah, it's gonna be different in that it exists. It's a thing, and it's a thing that somebody else can lead. And in terms of how that's gonna make you feel, you've brought something into existence. You've given it beautiful structure so somebody else can, can make something wonderful of it, and you get to move on to the next exciting thing
[32:15] Al Elliott: Cool. Okay. So that's, so we've done what so far? What are?
[32:19] Leanne Elliott: What?
[32:20] Al Elliott: Yeah
[32:21] Leanne Elliott: Um, so the next O is obstacle. So what is the biggest internal barrier? So what is it within you, something perhaps that could get in the way?
[32:31] Al Elliott: So we're not saying your biggest obstacle is that you don't know how to do Google Ads, for example. That's not where the obstacle comes from. The obstacle will come from Me going, oh, I'll do it next week. Oh, I'll do it next week. And then Christmas comes around and I've not done it
[32:45] Leanne Elliott: Mm-hmm
[32:46] Al Elliott: I suppose, do you know what, being real honest, I think my biggest obstacle is that I would start planning this out and then I would go down so many rabbit holes and go, oh, it'd be cool if it did this and it'd be cool if it did that and cool if it did the other thing and start building it so that by the time the 1st of December comes, I've actually built all the bits and pieces that fit with it, but I've still not spoken to a single person
[33:08] Leanne Elliott: Mm-hmm
[33:08] Al Elliott: Um, that's the problem. I mean, there are some, there's 2 different types of business owners. I think there's the people who like love going out there and selling something that doesn't exist. And I wish I was those, but I'm, I'm not really, I don't think. And I'm, and then there's the other people who will sit in a room and build it and then go and sell it. And both of those people, they've got pros and cons. You want to be somewhere in between where you build the minimum viable product. They call it MVP, minimum viable product. Go out there and gauge the interest on it. And then if there is interest, then sell it and build the rest of it, I think. So unpack that
[33:41] Leanne Elliott: If you're being honest with yourself, what's driving this pattern of thinking that results in this behavior to want to add stuff to it and explore more and keep the curiosity going rather than the focus? Because if we wanted to be Devil's avocado. One could say that that is just a very nice way of thinking about procrastination. I'm not procrastinating. I'm staying curious. I say it's procrastinating. So, what is it that drives that? Is it a fear of talking to people? Is it habit of just, that's how you work? There isn't a time pressure to it. What's driving that?
[34:22] Al Elliott: It's probably one of two things. It's probably the first one is that I just want it to be good. So if someone says no to it, I want them to say no to something which I think is good. So I go, okay, it's not for you. That's fine. Um, and there's probably a little bit of insecurity there as well. When you show something to the world and it's like, it's like half baked, people will be like, well, that's a bit rubbish, isn't it? Does it do that? No, it doesn't yet. No, no. Oh, well, it's not very good, is it?
[34:50] Leanne Elliott: Mm-hmm
[34:51] Al Elliott: So there's that. The other part of me, which is just, you've just thought of, is Potentially, I know that once I've got it done, or once I'm out there selling it, the countdown begins to me losing interest in it. That's probably more likely
[35:07] Leanne Elliott: Mm-hmm
[35:08] Al Elliott: That I know that if I start having 10 phone calls a week and I'm converting 2 to 3 of them and selling it, then I've probably got 9 weeks left and then I'm going to lose interest
[35:22] Leanne Elliott: We've identified though, in your perfect outcome, that that's built in. You've given yourself permission to lose interest in it
[35:28] Al Elliott: I have, yeah. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Yes, you're right. I've given myself, I've already built in the fact that we'll go and bring someone else in to manage this. Oh, okay. So actually, that is, if we spin that on its, put it on its head, spin it, you're saying that the quicker I get to the point of losing interest, the quicker I can go off and do other cool things because I've got someone else in. To do it, to manage it
[35:52] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[35:53] Al Elliott: Hmm. Might be something in this coaching stuff, you know, Leanne
[35:56] Leanne Elliott: Maybe. So let's go back again to that. Now we've had that, that reflection. So that, that pattern of thinking, which I'm going to call procrastination
[36:07] Al Elliott: Fine
[36:08] Leanne Elliott: Unless, as you said, the fear of it not being good. So the only way I see this, um, Continued or prolonged period of development, should we say, rather than— so it doesn't become procrastination. The only way you can do that is knowing how it's good. So how will you know this is good or good enough for an MVP?
[36:31] Al Elliott: Well, you need to go out there and show people it and see what they say
[36:34] Leanne Elliott: Right. So you can't judge yourself if it's good enough?
[36:37] Al Elliott: No. And this is the irony, is that now it sounds like grown-up Al has now joined the conversation. And he's now looking back over at stupid Al who's sitting over there and going, what the hell were you talking about a few minutes ago? Because you're right, you should be able to go out there. You should be able to sell the dream. And we go, okay, this is what we're building. This is what we've got so far. Are you in? If you're interested, just give us 100 quid to show us that you're definitely interested and then help us build out the rest of it
[37:02] Leanne Elliott: Mm-hmm
[37:02] Al Elliott: And if you go out there and you collect 100 quid, neither here nor there. So you go out there and collect 10 people. You're not gonna change the world with that money, but you will have 10 people who, who have Who have given you that more than £1, more than zero to say they're interested. So yes, that's interesting. So actually, in theory, when we get back home in about, um, in about a week's time, I could in theory just start emailing or cold calling people
[37:23] Leanne Elliott: Ooh
[37:25] Al Elliott: Um, yeah, maybe, maybe future Al didn't hear that. It is a lot more fun. To be fair, I'm not frightened of cold calling. I'm not frightened of emailing. I'm not frightened of talking to people. But I don't think anybody, even the Harvey Specters of the world or the greatest salespeople in the world, I'm not sure they love cold calling and cold emailing
[37:43] Leanne Elliott: No, no. Well, it's one of those things. We love it when you do it and you get a good outcome because it makes the uncomfortable thing worth it. But if you don't, then it's just soul destroying. And I say that having worked in outreach sales myself a long time ago. Okay, interesting. This is really, really good, Al. Excellent, excellent reflection here. So, in terms of this obstacle, it started that, oh, well, it will be me potentially overthinking about it, want to spend a bit more time on development, wanting to make sure it's really good, afraid that the sooner I get it there, I'm going to lose interest. Well, what we've actually said is from our outcome, you've already given yourself permission to lose interest. That's baked into achieving the outcome. And in terms of, is it good enough, you've now said on further reflection that Actually, that's part of it. You need to take it when it's not quite good enough. You need to be able to sell the dream and get feedback from the market, from potential customers. So, is it fair then that the main obstacle is gonna be procrastination?
[38:42] Al Elliott: Yeah. Well, sadly, yes
[38:44] Leanne Elliott: Okay. So, let's move on to the P. Let's finish the WOOP
[38:48] Al Elliott: Yep
[38:48] Leanne Elliott: Okay. So, plan an if-then statement for me. So, if you face the obstacle, so if you face procrastination, Then I will what? What's a specific action you can take to address that obstacle?
[39:05] Al Elliott: Back when I did telesales, I used to write down the number of direct nos I'd got. So I'd have a piece of paper and I'd, I'd think in my head, I'm making 50, 60, 70 cold calls a day and therefore, and I'm selling 3. So therefore I'm getting 47 people saying no to me. But actually what happened was I found that the majority of people just said, oh mate, I'm in the middle of something, or no, they're not around, or didn't answer or whatever. So really I was getting like 5 nos and 3 yeses. And I was like, oh, oh, so I'm like a, you know, I'm on like a 30%, um, or slightly more, 38%, uh, uh, success rate here. And that helped me to reframe. So I'm saying this out loud because I'm trying to think, what is it? So if I find myself opening my laptop and going, right, I'm just gonna very quickly build this panel into the software, that's procrastination. So I should be doing something. What other— tell me, you know me better than most people in the world. What would be my signs of procrastination?
[40:05] Leanne Elliott: I think you just identified one there, isn't it? That open that laptop. And if, if you are, if the first thing you are gonna do isn't something that's gonna contribute to the outcome, then it's procrastination. It might be that you have to build that panel because you had a conversation with somebody the day before. That said, or with 5 people that said that would be the main thing they'd wanna see. So, you'd have to do that. So, I guess it's identifying in that moment, the minute you're putting off any task that is driving you towards that outcome, is one, identifying it as procrastination. That's the first thing, and catching yourself in the moment, isn't it? Yeah. Reflecting on your WOOP will also help with that in terms of what's the wish, what's the outcome, What's the obstacle? Am I in this moment indulging too much in the obstacle? What do you think are the main reasons that you do procrastinate?
[40:55] Al Elliott: I think one of the reasons that a lot of people procrastinate is, especially if you have ownership of an idea and you go off and you say to people in the world, in, in, in real life, here's my idea. What do you think of my idea? And they go, it's a rubbish idea. Then you go, well, that was my idea. And you get it kind of like they're talking there. It feels like they're going, well, that's rubbish. And therefore, by extension, you're rubbish. So I think there's a lot of that. So really what needs to happen, I think, is to take— and I've— do you know what's funny is that— hi, Jeremy. What's funny is that with a lot of people I've been speaking to, I've coached through this thing. I've gone, look, there are 4 stages. And the first one is you're a scientist and you just got an experiment and you're going, okay, so this is what I think might work. Let's go and see if it'll work
[41:42] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[41:43] Al Elliott: And if it, and you go, oh, that was interesting. It didn't work. So what do we need to tweak to get that to work? I think that's what I need to do. I think I need to take the idea and treat it as a hypothesis that needs testing
[41:54] Leanne Elliott: So if I may then, what you're saying is—
[41:56] Al Elliott: Yeah, please interrupt me because I'm going around in circles here
[41:58] Leanne Elliott: If I face procrastination, that I will remember I'm a scientist
[42:01] Al Elliott: Oh yes. Yes. That's probably it, isn't it? Yeah. So if I face procrastination, it's probably because I don't want someone to say it's a bad idea. And then I have to remind myself, It's not my idea, it's an idea
[42:12] Leanne Elliott: Mm, nice. Lovely
[42:16] Al Elliott: My course will be coming out at Christmas, £999, early bird access
[42:21] Leanne Elliott: Exactly that though. And you know what, write that down afterwards. Once we finish, just write down your whoop and write that statement down. So, if I face procrastination, then I will remember I'm a scientist or Or what was the exact thing you said again?
[42:39] Al Elliott: No, I think that was it. Remember, you're a scientist and you're testing a hypothesis
[42:41] Leanne Elliott: An idea, not the idea. So it's not your idea, it's an idea. And it's actually my idea, if that helps at all
[42:48] Al Elliott: It is your idea
[42:50] Leanne Elliott: And also, the science is sound. So if people don't want it, then they're just wrong. So that's another one. If I face procrastination, I'll go to Leanne for a pep talk
[43:01] Al Elliott: Yes, that's what I'll do
[43:02] Leanne Elliott: Oh no, lovely. So recap me on your Whoop, Al. What's your wish?
[43:07] Al Elliott: So wish is to have a number of people who've made some kind of financial commitment to the— have I got this right? I've forgotten already
[43:15] Leanne Elliott: Yeah
[43:15] Al Elliott: No, yeah. Is that right? Yeah. Make a financial commitment to the RX7 system or roadmap or blueprint that we're putting together. O was obstacle
[43:24] Leanne Elliott: Outcome
[43:24] Al Elliott: Outcome. How is that different to the wish?
[43:27] Leanne Elliott: So the best result. So the outcome is, if you remember, this is a key one for you. It exists in the world and I've done all the wraparound, so I've given myself permission to lose interest in it
[43:38] Al Elliott: Oh, okay. Right. Yes. So that's the outcome is that it's, it's ready. It's generating revenue, enough revenue to me to go and find someone else and put them in that role
[43:46] Leanne Elliott: And the outcome is the best possible version of the wish coming true
[43:50] Al Elliott: Okay
[43:51] Leanne Elliott: Got it. What's your obstacle?
[43:53] Al Elliott: Procrastination
[43:54] Leanne Elliott: And what's your plan?
[43:55] Al Elliott: Uh, whenever I, whenever I find myself procrastinating, saying to myself, It's just a hypothesis at this stage. And as long as I keep hypothesizing, then I will come up with something. Or at Christmas, if I've come up with 10 hypotheses, spoken to 200 people and nobody wants it, well, that's actually probably quite a good thing to find out rather than spending 3 months building something when no one wanted it in the first place
[44:21] Leanne Elliott: Yeah. And it might be that after 4 weeks of work, you need to sit down in October and create another WOOP
[44:26] Al Elliott: Yeah
[44:26] Leanne Elliott: On what you've based, um, and what, yeah, what you plan to do. And do write it out. If you are listening and thinking, I think I've got a WOOP, you do have a WOOP. You probably have more than one WOOP, um, but do write it out. It does show that, um, it's actually more effective when you physically, physically do that energy transference between the brain and, and yeah, it's very much a thing. Interesting, you know, you were talking before about how, um, it's hard to envisage your future self. You can actually use that to your advantage. So, if you journal, If you journal in the third person, particularly if you're experiencing something quite heavy emotionally, you might say something like, Leanne had a really tough day today. She did 10 sales calls and everyone said no. It makes her feel like she's not worthy or the idea is useless or that she was wrong. Talking about yourself in the third person distances yourself even more from those emotions, more so than just regular journaling does. Because again, the neuroimaging shows that the energy transference goes from our amygdala, our kind of emotional brain to our prefrontal cortex, our thinking brain. So yeah, there you go. We can use some of these things to our advantage. So how are you feeling, Al? You've got your Whoop
[45:30] Al Elliott: Yeah, I think so. I think because I'm quite visual, visual or whatever the word is, then I would want to see it written down, I think. So I think what we've said, this is a bit of a contrived situation because we would normally write things down, wouldn't we? Yes. So I think once I'd see it written down, I'm like, okay. But the one thing that's come out of this, because this is interesting, I knew a little bit about what you were gonna do. I deliberately didn't look too much at your notes. Um, and I thought we were gonna end up with a plan to sell the RX-7, to develop and sell the RX-7 by Christmas. And what we've actually ended up with is simply go out there, ask people if they want it, and if they, and if enough people don't, change what I'm asking them
[46:10] Leanne Elliott: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it's almost kind of, kind of one, step further even in that we've gone through all the psychological processes we need to accept the transition, feel like we've got the energy to move forward, identify what that obstacle is gonna be in ourselves. Not that the market doesn't want it or, or, you know, the advertising campaign will fail. It's actually what's within me that's gonna potentially sabotage this. So now when you go and write your plan, The plan will, the plan will plan. You'll be able to do that. And you can do loads of different frameworks to, to help you actually do that step by step. This is really more about the, the planning for your psychological self to make this happen
[46:56] Al Elliott: Interesting. Something I never ever would've thought of doing. And if you said to me, do you wanna do this? I'd be like, no thanks. No, I do, I do not. But it's been very worthwhile
[47:07] Leanne Elliott: Do you know what? I think what's my favourite thing about coaching is when you get somebody who's a bit sceptical. And then it starts to, starts to be like, oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so let's move on to our final exercise, Al, which is energy intention. So our closing reflection. Okay. The destination is important, Al. We know this, but what's more important?
[47:29] Al Elliott: The journey
[47:30] Leanne Elliott: Exactly. Enjoying the journey